IRFU Funding Model changes

All 4 provinces will not thrive. It's a dream. The only way they thrive is by forcing Leinster star players to move.

What an utterly ridiculous comment.

Firstly, as I highlighted above, the idea that Munster purposefully decided not to develop homegrown players in order to raid Leinster players is completely silly.

Secondly, project players offer no indication of how a club wants to develop players. For example, you highlight Rhys Marshall as an example of a poor quality player who as unlikely to make it to the Irish shirt. Munster's hookers at the time (2016-17 season) included Niall Scannell (who went on to play 6 Nations that year) and Mike Sherry (who had also been internationally capped). So two international hookers produced. The two other hookers in that squad were Duncan Casey (who was always injured following the 2015 season, which cannot be helped), and Kevin O'Byrne. The Academy hooker at the time was a bloke called Vincent O'Brien who seems to have disappeared from the face of the planet - however the following year, two new hookers were added to the Academy: Eoghan Clarke and Diarmuid Barron - the latter of whom went on to play for Emerging Ireland last year and has captained Munster.

Keynan Knox was fairly experimental as a far as things go - the only other prop in the Academy at the time was Joey Conway, a good but undersized player who seems to have found his level at Bedford. Liam O'Connor had been promoted from the Academy the previous year, and was absolutely rocking the Provincial scene prior to his unfortunate run of injuries, culminating in his retirement. I've no doubt if his form remained at the level of his breakout, he'd have been in an Emerging Ireland style set up. The following year, James French and Josh Whycherly, joined the Academy - the latter of whom also toured on Emerging Ireland and is effectively Munster's second choice loosehead. The next home-produced prop after that is Donnelly, who the jury remains out on.

Matt Gallagher was a handy player who had a dislocated shoulder at an awful time. He joined in 2020. Jake Flannery was the only full back in the Academy at the time (I am uncertain if the injury ridden Jonathan Wren was also capable of playing 15). Campell joined the Academy the following Summer and was quickly promoted after Gallagher's departure.

Going through your selected range of 2018 - 2020, I have listed the NIQ players and also in brackets the young homegrown players in those positions at the same time.

2017 (doing this as well since there's no NIQs in 2020): Gerbrandt Groeblar (Fineen Whycherly in Academy at time, now has 106 Munster appearances.)

2018: Arno Botha (Gavin Coombes and Jack O'Sullivan in Academy: 96 and 37 senior caps respectively), Chris Cloete (Jack Daly in Academy: 10 senior caps to date and extended into next season despite injury woes - Hodnett joined the Academy the following year), Alby Matthewson (Craig Casey and Jack Stafford in Academy - Craig now at 80+ Munster appearances and internationally capped), Jaco Taute (Alex McHenry, Matt More (joined with Knox) not to standard.

2019: Damian De Allende (Dan Goggin: 81 Munster appearances despite being average enough), RG Snyman (Darren O'Shea somehow has 44 Munster appearances; Pa Kelly (retired due to injury), Tom Ahern and Eoin O'Connor joined the Academy that year - the middle of whom is now a mainstay and future international).

2020: No new NIQs that I can see on the Munster website - a certain Alex Kendellan added to the Academy this year.

Apart from our noted inability (rather than negligence) to produce a centre, Munster have developed players time and again from grass roots to replace these NIQs. Hardly indicative of "wilfully neglecting development" is it?

Interestingly, since this comment began about how Munster would raid Leinster players to avoid having to develop their own, here's a list of Leinster players who joined Munster in the same time frame:

2017: Jeremy Loughman (who has become an Irish international since leaving Leinster, Munster have produced Liam O'Connor (retired due to injury) and Josh Whycherly since; while our other senior looseheads at the time: James Cronin and Killer, were also homegrown prior to that).

2018: Joey Carbery (Ben Healy added to the Academy in the same year, went on to make 40+ Munster appearances and is now capped for Scotland; Jack Crowley produced after the fact - Hanrahan and Bill Johnston were our other senior outhalves at the time).

2019: Nick McCarthy (hardly a stalwart Leinster player - I don't need to rehash who Munster have produced at 9 since…)

2020: Paddy Patterson (see above), Roman Salanoa (perennially injured: Donnelly, Ryan, McSweeney all added to Academy within next 18 months - jury still out)

Hardly indicative of "wilfully neglecting development" is it?

Yea the sole incredibly valuable example, the sole already elite player for absolutely free. And in exchange a lot of players you didn't want.

I think Ulster and Munster probably should be doing a better job but there are good signs that is changing. I also think leinster had a golden generation and that is very unlikely to sustain but they are very well run. I think connacht are doing WAY better than they should be doing.

I def don't think players gojng to ulster and munster would hinder them though. Both will play young players when they are ready.

No doubt that Munster have added quality. Just the backrows alone, is excellent.

Connacht gave Leinster nothing! Henshaw chose Leinster.

The following current senior players all fall within that age group: Calvin Nash, Jack O'Donoghue, Rory Scannell, Niall Scannell, Fineen Whycherly, Gavin Coombes, Liam Coombes, Shane Daly.

Departed players of that generation include: Dan Goggin, Liam O'Connor, Neil Cronin, JJ Hanrahan, Alex McHenry, Brian Scott, Sean O'Connor, Darren O'Shea, Connor Oliver, Stephen Fitzgerald, Bill Johnston, Darren Sweetnam.

What might be lacking in international quality isn't lacking in volume. I think the complete mediocrity of some of those players (McHenry, S. O'Connor, Fitzgerald, Johnston) along with some unfortunate retirements (Scott, L. O'Connor) have made the generation seem more sparse than it is. That being said, I don't think it can be said that Munster neglected this generation. Far from it.

The Academy page is interesting in this regard, as it allows you to roll back the years. There's lots of names that never amounted to anything, but I think that's more indicative of the less refined approach to Academy selection from that era. Nowadays, you nearly have to be a ready made URC player to make the provincial Academies. That wasn't the case before, so you have a lot of names which never turned out into anything. However, I'm sure you find these across all four provinces (it'd be absurd if I said for example, that the fact Mark Hernan never became a Leinster regular was indicative of developmental neglect).

Its not unique to me. I'll need to find it but i heard an interview with an academy guy at another province who said that was the gap they would most like to close. As in how developed leinster players are entering the academy.

I think you are basically looking at lagging indicators. A team signing someone indicates a gap in their pathway, or a flaw in development years ago, not now. You basically have it reversed.

As long as you believe that you are improving the pathway, and you see the players at u18/u19/nts coming, then signing someone non homegrown for two years changes basically nothing. Yes, there is a limit but no one is close to that.

technically everyone who leaves leinster chose to go somewhere.

I mean, it would be funny to see them try at least.