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Can restaurants refuse to cut food into smaller portions?

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24

Answers

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,420 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    We should dial it back a bit, guys. There is no question of anyone bringing a claim for compensation. OP has made it clear that they have no desire or intention to do this; they are just exploring what the law requires or expects businesses to do in this situation.

    (Presumably we can all agree that businesses should generally comply with the law without being threatened with a lawsuit to compel them to do so. An important function of a law like this is not to provide a remedy, but simply to establish clarity and a level playing field around what patrons can expect and what business should do.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Avatar in the Post


    Complainant barrister, 'And what training did the server have in food preparation before cutting up X's food?'



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,344 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    what the law requires or expects businesses to do in this situation.

    Presumably if the cafe provided food that could be eaten one-handed then they have made accommodation for anyone coming in with only one usable hand. The OP chose to go into a restaurant that sold food that he would (in his opinion) need to attack with a knife and fork, two handed. He then chose an item on the menu that he anticipated he would not be able to eat one handed. And, he had a friend with him who could help him.

    The server could have made the decision to help him, but possibly suspected that they were being trolled, and declined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,420 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I don't think so. The core question is whether is it reasonable to make a particular accommodation (in this case, cutting up the food). If it is, they you have to make that accommodation. It's no answer to say that you've made a different accommodation (offering gruel on the menu). The point about a restaurant is that the diner selects what he would like from the menu offered. That's part of the service that the patron with a disability wishes to access, and the question is "what is it reasonable to expect the restaurant to do to enable the patron to access the service?" In that context, being willing to cut up the food looks like a no-brainer to me. "We offer a limited menu of food that doesn't need to be cut up for disabled diners" is not a defence that is going to succeed here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,813 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    I suppose they did ask if your friend could do it, which they could.

    Maybe if your friend wasn't there they might have actually done it for you?



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,367 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    The server could have made the decision to help him, but possibly suspected that they were being trolled, and declined.

    taking the OP at face value, the fact that they'd a hand in a cast would have pointed the needle back towards sincerity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Just had my breakfast and decided to eat it with one hand. Cant say it was in any way difficult.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,367 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    yeah, but was it cornflakes!



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,479 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    yeah thats it really. if the OP was there alone i think the restaurant may have been more accommodating.

    as it was, it was their suggestion that the friend cut the food up, presumably to a better degree under instruction from the OP who would be looking straight at the food… so in effect the restaurant were very accomodating in my book.



  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    So according to the server the restaurant kitchen wasn’t “ set up “ to cut a pancake into a few pieces. Need to send in Gordon Ramsey 😋



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    It was waffles with Nutella.

    We should have a challenge. Everyone try and eat their lunch with one hand and come back and let the rest of us know how they got on. Obviously if you know you'll be eating with one hand youll be making sure you wont be having a steak or a hard boiled egg for lunch, well unless you feel you need to add extra drama to your lunch :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭Ted222


    Not effecting your ability to type beautifully or did you have this done for you as well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 593 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    just thinking if the server did in fact cut up the pancake and then the OP choked on a piece of the cut up pancake, they could then sue the server and the restaurant for not cutting it up into the correct size pieces!! Why would the restaurant take that on themselves? They are not trained carers for the elderly.

    If it was me I wouldn't have ordered pancakes, plenty of time for that when the wrist is fixed, I would have ordered something easy like soup and a sambo. Too much drama.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    I was in a cast before on my main hand up to the elbow, it never restricted me from cutting up food with my other hand so I actually dont see the issue here at all especially when the food is soft and easy to cut up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You need to check the definition of disability in the Equal Status Acts.

    The service is providing food that can be eaten. You don't get around discrimination claims with that nonsense.

    Sorry, we don't normally provide a ramp, so we're not going to provide a ramp to you. It's your own fault for coming here in your wheelchair.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    I don't understand why this is even a discussion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    if this spoofer didn't create made up threads, what would you clowns argue about



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,344 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    So is suffering from coeliac disease a disability? It is something that restricts normal activity so does that mean that the restaurant must provide a gluten free alternative to every dish, not just give the customer alternative gf options? Lots of cafes don't offer any gf alternatives, should there be legislation about it?

    A cast on an arm is an inconvenience and generally people would do their best to help someone in that situation, but not making any attempt to mitigate their own problems by choosing suitable food, then asking for someone to cut up their food while they have someone with them who could easily do it is just unreasonable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    There's lots of history around deciding what is a 'reasonable accommodation' for service providers. The major restriction is that reasonable accommodations can only impose "nominal costs" on service providers.

    At a guess, producing a range of gluten free offerings would impose more than a nominal cost. Cutting up a pancake would not impose more than a nominal cost.

    Honestly, if this is your first step into equal status rights for people with disabilities, maybe do some research before making definitive statements.

    Friends are not carers. People with disabilities should not be expected to impose on their friends to act as their carers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,180 ✭✭✭pgj2015


    its ok for the op to ask the waiter to cut up the food, but to start a thread about it and act as if it was some big Rosa Parks incident is ridiculous.

    I bet if the op was stranded on a desert island they wouldn't care about getting the crepes cut up. 😂



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,367 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    act as if it was some big Rosa Parks incident is ridiculous.

    you're proving my point for me. the OP did not come in any way close to making a fuss. the closest to your supposed rosa parks incident was the question 'should i have pushed for it?'



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,344 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I am simply offended by someone making a mock of real disabilities by pretending a few weeks with a cast on their arm is anything approaching a disability.

    And as to my 'first step into equal rights', I was one of the initiators and mod of this forum for several years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,276 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    A couple of thoughts…

    1. I saw this thread earlier, I can't believe it is still open.
    2. If I had my wrist in a cast, I probably would not go out pancakes with my friend to begin with. I'd more likely say "Lets stay at home and order pizza".
    3. I am sure if the OP was there alone the server would have obliged, however they were with their friend and probably thought it would be more sensitive if the friend did it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What does 'more sensitive' mean? Why do you expect anyone with a person with a disability to be their carer? It could be their boss, or their Tinder date or their drug dealer or their new employee. People with disabilities have independent lives, and shouldn't be relying on family or friends for basic human care.

    As for the 'stay at home', we're not in the 1970s now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,442 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    I can’t believe this thread is still going, over a cast on a wrist, and that anyone would draw a parallel with someone who is wheelchair bound.
    As a society, have we really reached that point of entitlement that we think the restaurant should be required to cut a pancake up?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,825 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Pin the thread and give it a week or so to see if the op has ever posted again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,442 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    There was a thread some years ago where a poster asked if they could sue because he/she got a burn from the steam coming from the spout on their kettle, and another one wanted to know where they could complain because their dog got hit by post put through the letterbox of their door by the postman, this makes it a hatrick.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    speaking as somebody with MS who gets unpredictable episodes of either or both hands not working well, eg very weak, unable to grab cutlery properly, dropping it, tremoring, I either choose what looks like manageable food or would ask, eg for steak to be cut, not a problem in foreign restaurants which are the ones I most often visit. I would expect such accommodation be made at any Irish establishment, it’s no big deal. I would mention it in a review if they refused.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi




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