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Irish White Privilege......Yeah

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Let me spell this out for you.

    The State should have no part in deciding who should feel shame/privilege or whatever the ideologues of the day decide what is sinful. The last time we allowed that, tens of thousands of young boys were abused in classrooms all over this country, those abusers were protected by the State, Political class and media.

    If you want to beat the notion of privilege into your kids, off with you, leave everyone else's kid alone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Who is talking about shame or sin here?

    Your line of reasoning here strikes me as someone who spends way too much time concerning themselves with the views of either end of the extremes on this — the white guilt purveyors and the reactionaries on the other side who are constantly locked in their little Twitter battles.

    Try this: Imagine that somewhere in between those two extremes there might just exist a nuanced and meaningful middle where discussion around privilege is actually a very powerful way of engaging your ability to think critically.

    Or I dunno, spend the rest of your life making conflations between the opinions of people who disagree with you and whatever wild extreme thing you arbitrarily decide ties in nicely to rely on theatrics over substance. Up to you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    No, it’s not about treating people badly but it’s more than rich that someone from a country that is far more racist than Ireland cries that Ireland is racist.

    We are not a colonial power we were colonised. Eight hundred years of occupation, a famine, one third of our population dead one third forced to emigrate to America where they were given nothing and had to work for everything. I grew up in the eighties, we were poor. I went to college and worked to pay for it. I got a job and paid for everything myself. I won’t have someone else’s guilt pressed on me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    I see. Lets just make assumptions that people had it easier than you and so were privileged . Personally I would say poor Tarquin got sh!t on by his parents for naming him that as it makes him a target for people looking to be outraged and they picked on him because of his name.



  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭Gentlemanne


    You know what's funny is I'd actually also use the word trick about a situation where you tell your own children that the concept of privilege is bullshit.

    Everyone has exactly the same situation in life kids, and there's nobody with any inherent advantages or disadvantages! Now lets all snort glue and huff paint



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Oh come on.

    Once you start telling and convincing one group of kids that they are privileged you are implying also that they should not alone be grateful but also ashamed that they are pivileged.

    That is very much how the ones foisting this mindset sees things.

    Just look at or listen to some of the ones pushing this agenda in the homeland of this mindset, the USA.

    It is totally implied that modern white people should be ashamed of what has historically been done to black people in the country.

    That might be fine if you are talking to some white cracker in Alabama whose grand daddy was in the klan and whose great great grand daddy kept slaves and fought for the confederates all the while making a fortune off slavery.

    But why should some kid whose parents emigrated to US from Ireland in the 50s feel ashamed because he is simply white.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,049 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    @purifol0 threadbanned



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Everyone living in Ireland is privileged to live in one of the best countries in the world by every metric there is, including weather. Everyone, white, brown, black, doesn't matter. This is what it should be taught in schools and celebrated, and if anyone doubts that this is the case:



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Yeah but you're doing that thing that people like to do on stuff like this where you say "listen to what some of the ones are saying" — and you'll point us to some activist who thinks white people should be taxed higher as penance for slavery in the US or some guff like that. Yes, there are people who have an overly zealous view of privilege — but then again there are people who are zealous racists too, right? The fact that either side on the more hardline ends of the spectrum exists does not mean there isn't a space in between where beneficial reason can be found.

    Also, why should telling a child they are privileged in a certain way make them feel ashamed? Who is implying it? Some activist? A journalist at the Guardian? Some Trinity blogger? The reality is that the none of those people tend to ever actually be reflective of wider society — a society where I can recognise (for example) that growing up heterosexual came with conscious and subconscious privilege that my gay peers didn't have without any feeling of being ashamed that I'm straight.

    Most Irish teachers — knowing a lot of them myself as both the son of a teacher and the partner of a teacher — are not radical activists. They tend to be normal quiet people who aren't on some ideological crusade. The discussion on privilege isn't defined by the loudmouths just because you possibly have only tended to listen to the loudmouths.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Every metric such as health, housing, living in poverty levels???



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Yes.

    Healthcare while far from perfect it ranks 23/167 in the world: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1376359/health-and-health-system-ranking-of-countries-worldwide/

    There is no real poverty in Ireland. For real poverty have a look at the image I posted. Housing problems can be solved, and they will be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Show those kids an Irish school with no heat during winter and ask them where they would rather be. There are plenty of Irish kids going hungry due to their parents issues. Now what are you personally doing to make either case better?

    Also none of those kids look under feed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Seriously? Those kids are bare feet in the dirt, and that's in a classroom, not out on a field. Our kinds get free hot meals in school now, what are you on about? Even the worst prefab classroom in Ireland is heaven compared to what those kids are getting. And that's even before we think about what happens in those places, famine wars and genocides. We and our kids are incredibly privileged to be living in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,335 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Plenty of rich Africans that are more than happy to see their own people live in poverty. Are you personally going to do something the make their lives better? I mean how do they benefit from your guilt?



  • Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭Oxo Moran


    We are a classist society. There are worker bees and the privileged. RTE is a great example. Joe Duffy and Gay Byrne were working class, but the people behind the scenes reaping massive expenses and salaries were certainly born to it. As was Ryan Tubirdy.

    There's more chance of a Nigerian getting a job in RTE, being put up for election etc., than someone from a working class background.

    That's not knocking any Nigerians, just pointing out optics and cultural enrichment does not and never has included a level field for working class people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Milominderbender


    There is someone living in Africa right now who has never even heard of Ireland who will get housed before an Irish person in need. Calling Irish people privileged is a sick joke.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,175 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I mean, by that logic, most members of the British royal family are less privileged than many people who grew up in a sink housing estate, as long as they had parents that loved them.

    There's really not a lot of point in me trying to explain what nonsense that is, if you can't see it already.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls@UNSRVAW "Very concerned about these statements by the IOC at Paris2024 There are multiple international treaties and national constitutions that specifically refer to#women and their fundamental rights to equality and non-discrimination, so the world has a pretty good idea of what women -and men for that matter- are. Also, how can one assess whether fairness and justice has been reached if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You may have misunderstood me, I feel no guilt because I did nothing to be guilty of. Also I'm not going to do anything for them because that's not my responsibility and frankly I don't care enough. But still I'm grateful for having the privilege of living in one of the best countries in the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Shame/Sin/Privilege, it's all the same, it's a religion. Who the f##k are you to tell a small little child that isn't yours that they are privileged because of the colour of their skin and should somehow repent, because that is the real purpose of preaching this nonsense to kids, to make them repent, to make them acquiesce. Kids who would have been pals will be divided by this garbage.

    Let the parents handle the teaching of life's nuances to their child. Bigots have no business in a child's classroom.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    Most Irish teachers? So what percentage of teachers are radical activists? Because, as discussed, we've had issues with radicalized teachers in the past as we all know.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭creedp


    So what are you proposing as a personal attonement for the circumstances these less well off kids? A 2 hour fast and a large financial transfer to your favourite charities? Or maybe going on Boards and displaying your compassion for those poor foreign kids from your comfortable abode is enough to assuage this guilt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,073 ✭✭✭Cordell


    You also misunderstood me. It's not about guilt and compassion, it's about being happy and grateful for what we have. Grateful, not guilty. As for white privilege, that's nonsense. The backs living here have the same privilege as anyone else living here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Repent? For what?

    Acquiesce? To what?

    I mean, you're the guy talking about "listen to what some people say" and yet here you are giving me this God awful "who the f**k are you" stuff and talking about bigots in classrooms. If I'm being honest, sounds like you're more influenced by the radical left view than I am!

    Why would teaching a child to understand the different lived experience of their classmates somehow make them enemies?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Very good. Can you explain to me what your point is here and its relevance to our discussion?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭creedp


    Exactly the whole privilege issue is pure nonsense and as said before imported here from the States and has no place or relevance in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    What is with the guilt thing though?

    The spirit of Cordell's post, which I mainly agree with, is simply a statement that it is a privilege to be born in a developed country and to have the things which such countries offer from your earliest days. He said nothing about feeling guilty about it, or that anyone has to atone for it.

    Now, I'd disagree with where he takes that argument eventually — i.e. acknowledges the privilege of being born in a developed country but then does not apply the same logic to other forms of privilege.

    But ultimately, he said nothing about guilt. That word keeps getting put into peoples' mouths for whatever reason.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    What is with the guilt thing though?

    it's a strawman to allow people who are opposed to the idea to more easily vocalise their opposition.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭creedp


    Maybe if the people and their families who strongly advocate for this initiative should buy the 'I feel so privileged to be Irish and White' t-shirts and parade around with the canvassing politicians. I'm sure they'd appreciate the vocal support from all the like minded equivalents



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,811 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne




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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,039 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i don't even know what point he was trying to make with that, even though he was responding to me. so i left it.



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