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Senua's saga :hellblade 2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    That fight in the night with the fire and blood ritual. The whole run up to it and the actual fight is gorgeous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    So good . Id love just repeat that section .



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Shows how spoilt we have become, I walked through a puddle and it didn't splash and I was thinking they really missed a step 😂.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,575 ✭✭✭DeSelby83


    I reached this last night, seriously intense, what a great run up and set piece.





  • Just finished. Wow, what a game. Whatever the criticism, whatever the praise, the one thing I've come away with from the game is what an utterly powerful and important story to tell and wow! what a medium to tell it through. This story deserves nothing but the best and that is what it got.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    I remember that puddle alright 😂.

    On chapter 4 now . Still a 9/10 or more so far for me . Stunner .



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,454 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Ended up playing the first two chapters over the last two evenings, alongside Lorelei sessions. Short sessions definitely recommended for this one.

    Sadly, it's a pretty underwhelming sequel for me thus far. It's been seven years since I played the last game, so don't have a great memory of the ins-and-outs, but here the strengths feel like the same strengths of the last game, and everything else (other than the graphics) feels either like a disappointing lack of progress or even a stumble backwards.

    Yes, the binaural audio is still a great experience, and yes it's a graphical showcase. And, just like the first one, those aren't shallow, spectacle only technologies here: they emphasise the story and character in an important way. Senua's story wouldn't be as strong or as intimate if the performance capture wasn't so rich, and the set pieces wouldn't be as strong if the lighting wasn't as dynamic as it is here (definitely a good showcase for Lumen). Some of the stuff you encounter is certainly striking or harrowing. I don't think it's on the level of Alan Wake 2 - which IMO remains a high water market for graphical fidelity and art design ingenuity - but it certainly is a testament to both technology and the art department at Ninja Theory. The presentation is impressively filmic too, with just the right amount of post processing effects to create that distinctive cinematic look (thankfully, though, it’s hitting a comfortable 60 FPS with DLSS on my PC).

    But boy, there really isn't a whole lot of game to grasp onto here. I've played a lot of games with minimal interactivity through the years, so I'm not opposed to it: games can be whatever they'd like to be. But the problem here is that so much of the interaction feels turgid or uninspired. The combat is pretty dire, frankly, and overly simplified - feels like more you're reacting to pre-determined script directions than being involved in a fight (and boy they really like reusing 'aha there was another enemy behind you, just outside your peripheral vision!' trick). The "puzzles" (used very lightly) are just a nuisance used to pad out the runtime (apologies: I don't think they do much to add any additional insight into Senua's state of mind, trauma or psychosis), and the navigation boils down to 'go straight for story, or side path for one of two collectibles'. There's some puzzling decisions too, like how the glorified audio logs you unlock just fade away if you try to walk back to the main path. It also stumbles narratively, feeling less focused than the first and removing much of the intriguing ambiguity that made it such a notably intimate, insular story about Senua.

    A game being slow is not a problem. A game being sluggish is a problem. And that's what I feel for a lot of Hellblade 2: I'm just holding the button forward to walk or lightly sprint forward at a frustratingly unhurried pace, but a lot of the time it barely feels like I even need to be doing that. There's been times - especially during the extended opening on the beach - where it felt entirely arbitrary when I was handed 'control' and when it was taken away. It's been two-three hours of game that already feels like it could've been handled in half that time without losing any of its power or resonance or atmosphere.

    Is what’s happening on screen so extraordinary or special that it justifies such a loss of interaction? As impressive as some of it is, I just don’t think it clears that threshold as often as needs to. The compromise feels too large IMO.

    Ninja Theory are technical wizards, and they're to be commended for doing their own thing. But if Hellblade 1 was a flawed but brave step in a different direction for them, this is an all too safe and somewhat redundant retread of the same material - even arguably less compelling narratively and gameplay-wise. The beautiful presentation immediately shows that seven years have passed since the first game. Sadly, in playing the game it feels like time (and NT's game design) hasn't moved on at all.

    Credit where it’s due though: hell of a photo mode.

    Post edited by johnny_ultimate on


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Id go as far as saying it is not much more than a tech demo. But what a demo, Unreal, Xbox and LG OLED all shine. My hard drive is rapidly filling up with screenshots.

    I did struggle with the opening. Couldn't really see the graphical leap they talked about as everything is so grey and grim. My finger was sore from holding up to walk. At times I felt if they just let you run the game would be about 20 mins long.

    But the more I got into it the more I got engrossed. I just finished the hidden world and the "lava" part. The music, the visuals as you move through that final section was just perfect. I'd love that in a big orchestral live show.

    Not sure if the screenshots do it justice. I've said it before but a dark room, OLED and headset is the best way to play this.

    Post edited by Grumpypants on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    Don't get me wrong I love the game so far but how in the of god did it take them 7 years to make it !!!? I find myself laughing playing it thinking about it . It's a walking simulator with bare minimum gameplay mechanics . Not taking covid as an excuse it's comical took that long surely making good loss on it ?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,408 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It's a time team. The seven years would also factor in the preproduction which could take a long time. Also the character modelling and animation is best in class and very difficult to do. Games take a lot longer and are more difficult to make than most people realise and it's kind of infuriating when people of ignorant of the process demand more.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Im always a bit wary about them saying it took 7 or 8 years. A good chunk of that could have been 2-3 people gathering ideas, figuring out new tech. I'd say the main dev effort was a much smaller window.

    But if you are a small team that is hard focused on delivering their vision. Scaling up to a bigger team to move faster can lose that control and focus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    Iv had no bugs and it runs great . So they made a great job of it . Still can't see a world where it's going make money .



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,866 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Finished it tonight. Powerful stuff. Not a huge amount of gameplay in there and combat Is repetitive and not that intuitive , but the overall experience was well worth my time.

    Great game pass game as I wouldn't spend €50 on it but very happy that I got to play it.

    Going Straight into playing the original now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    Finished it yesterday . Loved it . Shorter games are nice in this day and age they don't out stay there welcome . Could this game be ripe for DLC?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,163 ✭✭✭brady12


    Just realized can play sections of chapters so going re play draugr ceremony before deleting game .



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,454 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Opted to forge ahead with this since it's short. Now into chapter 5 (of six, I believe) and if anything my opinion of it has only soured further. The combat is, I'm sorry to say, atrocious. Every encounter makes me roll my eyes when another random enemy lunges at you from behind, until the arbitrary number you need to kill to proceed has been reached. It's kind of bizarre, because Ninja Theory have made much better than this in the past. I would never have considered Enslaved or DMC masterpieces of game or combat design, but they're on a different level compared to this.

    The story is rambling and uninteresting - there doesn't seem to be much in the way of coherent stakes or motivations, and it actively undermines some of the intriguing stuff about the last game. I've only been playing one chapter per session, but the game feels much, much longer than the five hours I've put into it because there's so much fluff and filler in even a game this modestly scoped.

    At least the last stretch of chapter 4 was a solid spectacle, even if again there wasn't much in the way of gameplay to grasp onto. Other than that, this is proving a rather frustrating creative fumble from Ninja Theory - a sequel that is a step back from its predecessor in every conceivable way other than graphical presentation.





  • All valid arguments. From a purely gaming perspective, I can see how it falls short.

    Bur to me there is a powerful message about trauma in there and I think its a case of count yourself lucky that you don't get it.

    The wave after wave combat. Dodging, parrying, dodging parrying (when will it end) until you finally let leash has a particularly powerful meaning behind it. It is without doubt one of my favourite combat sequencing in gaming.

    It is possible I am reading too much into it, maybe making associations that do not exist. But that is story telling. A poem can have very different meanings personal to each individual.

    Actually I think that is a very good way of describing this game. It is a poem, with a dark but very important meaning.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,454 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Having finished the game, I very much get what it's trying to do thematically. But if it's a poem, it's for me a bad poem: full of confused theming, trite imagery and several aesthetic missteps.

    There's nothing the game does that the first game didn't do substantially better: that's also about trauma, but more personal and intimate. This awkwardly tries to revisit some of those themes with a more epic scope story, but loses focus and purpose in the process. It belatedly settles on being a story about confronting your past (or not) and forging one's own destiny, but these are very well-trodden themes that this struggles to say anything refreshing about. It also tries to explain away some of the phenomenon seen throughout the game, but given the addition of multiple other characters throughout it actually just confuses things further IMO and renders a lot of the journey confused and arbirtray. The fighting seemed less a desperate, urgent fight for survival for me than waiting for the designers to arbitrarily decide how many enemies you had to fight in this particular encounter. I definitely get what the former is what they were going for, but it didn't work at all for me.

    I also think one of the biggest error the game makes is committing to the 'one shot' gimmick popularised by God of War. I think this really hurts the game in fundamental ways - it makes the pacing ponderous and sluggish, while also losing the impact that cuts and shifts in perspective would allow.That it relies so much on clichéd video game imagery - such as the fantasy / dream sequences and the 'let the neon dots tell you a story' walking sequences - hurts it a lot as well.

    Don't get me wrong: if the game worked for you and moved you, that's fantastic. That's what art should do. No reading or reaction is right or wrong. But for me the game was a collossal disappointment - learning all the wrong lessons from Ninja Theory's first Hellblade game, and making a substantially lesser sequel as a result.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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