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Cork Area Commuter Rail (CACR)

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  • Posts: 0 Chana Big Ranch


    What concerns me is you always get these great plans when there's an election on… Then they evaporate when it comes to implementation and they start pandering to a load of NIMBYism and short-term focus budget cuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Lol, you're talking 2 years design and 3 years in ABP and then a year to tender and at least 3 years to construct. Assuming no excessive planning delays or judicial review by nimby.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,074 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    Thanks. It wasn't mentioned in the Examiner article I saw earlier.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,004 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    End of next year is 2025, not 2026, you've added a year even before your assumption of a years slippage

    ABP are getting faster now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,319 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Appointing pen/mouse pushers announcement. Meh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭AngryLips




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,491 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I have a question about the dual-tracking to Midleton.

    90m for 8km, is that correct?

    Is land acquisition involved?

    Removal of level crossings?

    It seems expensive for 8km?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41367664.html

    It is better then it was, but should be even better.

    Number of staff have increased to 261 from 197 in December 2022, but still 50 short on how many they are allowed. More importantly they have a full board now, at one stage due to Board resignations, they didn't have enough in the board to allow decisions to progress.

    There is a 2,400 backlog, but that is down from 3,600.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    From the website, the project covers:

    • Addition of 2nd track over the full extent of the line;
    • Addition of sidings/turn back facilities at Midleton;
    • Modification/replacement of bridges and level crossings to facilitate the twin tracking
    • Associated signalling upgrades and alterations;
    • All associated civil works (retaining walls, boundary treatments, etc.).

    All works completed as part of the project will be compatible with future electrification of the Cork Area Commuter Rail network.

    (full text here: https://www.irishrail.ie/ga-ie/about-us/iarnrod-eireann-projects-and-investments/cork-area-commuter-rail/glounthaune-to-midleton-twin-track-project )

    "Associated signalling upgrades and alterations" and "will be compatible with future electrification" suggests that at least some of the ETCS install project recently awarded to Alstom is under this budget. (https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2023/8/alstom-chosen-provide-smartlock-interlocking-and-etcs-irish-rails-cork-area-commuter-rail)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    ??? Has something happened? Cork level crossing project, arguably the most basic of railway projects has recently had it's 3rd birthday sitting on a desk in ABP.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Eamon Ryan in a tweet said it will be fully battery electric.



  • Registered Users Posts: 69,004 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That appears to have been black holed due to being not particularly important. Overall backlog is down by about a third.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    So they have cleared 1,200 cases from their backlog. The article linked shows that the backlog was cleared over a two year period, but even if we're generous and recognise that there was a certain ramping up time associated with the recruitment of new staff and board members and assume that this backlog was cleared over 1 year, that suggests that APB will still take another two years to clear the backlog of existing cases at the current run rate. Do we even know what their approach is for clearing the backlog? are they working on new cases to current SLAs so that anything new going into the system isn't impacted by the delays and quarantining the backlog cases and clearing them down as a separate workflow?

    Surely it's reached a breaking point where they should just consider doing an amnesty and approve everything just to get back on track?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭pigtown


    Well an amnesty would be a terrible idea and would lead to a host of substandard developments and inevitably legal issues



  • Registered Users Posts: 386 ✭✭Ireland trains


    Ryan wants to send what I’m guessing is the second DART order to Cork in 2026: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41402068.html

    Blarney also apparently going to be a terminal station with a 3rd platform and charging infrastructure.

    Cork passenger numbers up 15% this year.

    Also seeing €300m mentioned for the current works underway - was this not originally around €185m?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,580 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    A planning amnesty for critical infrastructure for the next 5 years is warranted at this point.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BEMU's make a lot of sense, allows them to get service up and running as quickly as possible and thus not delayed by ABP decision making on a railway order.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Only if you want to spend the next 10 years in court fighting each case!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    That's some article in fairness………

    New battery electric trains could be running on Cork's new €1.6bn high-frequency commuter rail service within two years, the Transport Minister has pledged.

    €1.6bn ?????

    Some €300m is already being invested in a new through-platform at Kent Station.

    That must be some platform

    “We are here today to give Cork back what it had once — one of the world’s leading rail systems,” he said.

    Get a grip Eamonn

    “This is good news for Cork, but also for the whole country because Cork on the rise balances the country and makes for better-balanced regional development.”

    Eamonn get a grip. This is a long overdue improvement in the trains to Midleton and Blarney, not some transformative investment with widespread and large scale economic benefit across the region.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    It begars belief that this hasn't been moved on. It's about as non-contentious as you can get where infrastructure development is concerned and I understood that the key concerns had been addressed. That we have a supposedly pro-rail minister sitting idly by while this goes nowhere says a lot. It's a bit like the silence since ABP granted the RO for the Glounthane-Midleton double tracking, you'd have expected him to have the SI containing the commencement order ready to go instead of a six month and counting gap. None of this augurs well for the much more complicated and longer term job of delivering a light rail route across and through the city.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,319 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It won't make trains any more frequent or faster to be fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    It is definitely on record* that this will facilitate improved rail journey times I can’t remember where but I have a figure of 6-8 mins in my head as I remember thinking that it was 1+min per level crossing, and that it benefits the Cork-Limerick service as well as Cork-Dublin.

    There is also a huge safety benefit in completing this work. This cannot and shouldn’t be overlooked.

    *I’ll see if I can track down the source when I have more time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 595 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Haha I've had a very long week in work. Thought it was 2025, or just forgot how to add..



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I think Eamon is spoofing about electric trains running in 2026. The Railway Order for the electrification infrastructure and new depot for the BEMU trains won't be submitted to ABP until the end of 2025. It'll hardly be approved and infrastructure built and in place for battery electric trains to be running in 2026.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,914 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That application can't be taken as a benchmark, there is clearly some sort of complication with it. The far more complex and contentious BusConnects corridors in Dublin have been getting approval without much issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,319 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    How is it safer? Are the existing ones unsafe somehow?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I assume they could replace the existing trains with BEMU's without needing to build the new depot.

    I mean in terms of a 1 to 1 replacement of the existing fleet. Obviously to increase the number of trains significantly beyond that they will need a new depot. So he could be technically correct.

    Similar to how they can bring BEMU's to Drogheda and the Northern line without building a new depot or electrification.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    But you need charging infrastructure for these trains that costs money and needs planning. There is charging infrastructure needed in Drogheda to support the Northern Line trains that required planning permission. It's not a simple case of just plugging them in somewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The current crossings are manned and are clearly less safe than not having them at all. Any potential interaction between road vehicles and trains is a safety consideration.

    The proposal would eliminate 6 of the 7 manned crossings on the line and convert the 7th one to an automated controlled one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,752 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Every level crossing is a safety risk on the railway. Closing them eliminates that risk.

    Also, you asked about speeds - there are permanent speed restrictions on the railway associated with some of the crossings which will be removed following their elimination.



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