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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    We're incompetent, but so are the other guys, so, eh, vote for us!
    -MLMD (probably)



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    eh?

    You are blind Clo. You get off calling a hypothetical budget incompetent (SF corrected the Business Post claims btw) while ignoring actual incompetence.

    Take the plank out of your eye maybe?

    *I don't think there is a perfect political party on the planet btw. They will all make mistakes, do good and bad.

    ** Nobody, certainly not I, is claiming Ireland is a terrible place to live. Again you need some perspective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I am still waiting for someone to defend Sinn Fein's policy on climate change.

    All I see are the usual incoherent and incomprehensible whataboutery responses. Quite pathetic.

    The incompetence you see in Sinn Fein politicians is matched by the incoherence of their supporters online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A Just Transition Task Force This is a good idea
    No carbon tax increases in the absence of viable alternatives Fully agree with this
    No new licences for offshore fossil fuel drilling and no new
    fossil fuel infrastructure - Absolutely agree and any 'Green' staying in a government doing this is a bogus Green.
    A total ban on fracking across the island of Ireland, including
    exploratory drilling, and a total ban on the importation of
    fracked gas - I agree
    Termination of all peat and coal electricity over the next five
    years - While it would be a good thing, I think 5 years is hopeful
    State divestment in fossil fuel projects - I agree
    All data centres to be powered through self-generated 100%
    renewable energy - Agree
    A legal and structural framework for domestic microgeneration
    of renewable energy - Agree
    Greater community ownership and public participation in
    renewable energy projects. - Again, a good idea on several levels

    I also agree with them on the wrongheadedness of the taxation approach to changing behaviours. What the Greens are seeking to change by taxing people will not halt or put the tiniest dent in saving the planet. Therefore tax the worst offenders first, then work down the chain. Bring people with you instead of alienating them from the get go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭robwen


    If SF are the new FF, FG should have no problem forming a coalition with SF after the the next general election



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,330 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Some in SF hate FF and vice versa, after FF leader DeValera executed some IRA in an Irish prison back in the forties : some Republicans have not forgotten that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭moon2


    Hrmm, there's a lot of negatives in that. There's some detail on exactly what will be removed from the energy supply. No details about how to augment the energy supply and maintain grid stability. The latter part is the part that matters the most unfortunately.

    No new fossil fuel infrastructure and also banning/reducing existing fossil fuel generators, combined with making all data centers self generated?

    Some useful numbers: peat and coal are 16% of generation capacity. Datacentres are 18% of energy consumption. By this policy we need over 30% net new renewable generation capacity to make datacentres self sufficient and remove peat and coal. If that takes 5 years, we also need an additional 20% generation capacity just to keep up with anticipated growth.

    What's the plan to get +50% generation capacity, or import infrastructure, in place in 5 years without increasing the only cost of a kWh as compared to today's already elevated rates.

    It all sounds lovely but in practical real world terms how will this be achieved, especially if we want to maintain grid stability during cloudy wind free days while not building any fossil fuel generation systems. It's a wish list we can all agree with, but the lack of how to achieve it is highly problematic.

    To achieve the plan, we'd literally already have to have approved planning permission for many new generation sites and construction already underway.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    When I said that SF are the new FF, I was seeing them as replacing the FF of Haughey and Ahern, corrupt, power-hungry and not interested in the people. There have always been a section of people who have voted for that type. If you look at vote-share, and add FF to SF, you get a figure close to what Haughey and Ahern used get. We even have them on here, posters claiming to have been fooled for 40 years and are now switching to SF for the first time.

    I don't there is a snowball's chance in hell that FF will form a coalition with that type of party - after all, they never formed one with Haughey or Ahern.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It's a similar document to the one FG have on their website, which is a one page summary.
    There are more detailed PDFs on Renewable Energy and Emissions on their website.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Quite clearly, since FG have installed FF (with a leader who served in governments of Haughey and Ahern) in government, even though it was 'like putting Delaney back in the FAI', there is now a good FF and a bad FF.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,911 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    When you consider that Sinn Fein also want the North/South interconnector to go underground at three or four times the cost of overground, as well as not having any realistic approach to the intermittent problems of wind and solar, you get a sense of how incoherently stupid their policy is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 709 ✭✭✭moon2


    I was curious about FFs green energy policy. They've actually listed targets and pathways to grow generation capacity through green sources, as well as promoting an import link between Ireland and France. Similar statements about fracking and new licenses for fossil fuel exploration. No mention of shutting down fossil fuel plants which is reasonable. That has to come after we increase renewables and we're a long way from that unfortunately. They have a half way point wrt peat. It talks of reviews and amendments rather than outright shutdowns.

    If we can reasonably shut down generators I would hope we kill the most polluting ones first. Those generally have the best ramp up times to meet surges in demand though.

    I wish someone was talking more about storage though. I was a bit disappointed to not see either policy committing to targets around storage capacity.

    Objectively the FF policy is more detailed and provides a clearer structure on how we get to net zero and renewable generation. If green energy would win your vote, FF is better than SF in terms of vision, approach and targets



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Which types? And if the investor is not private then by definition are they public? Why would a leasehold model be advantageous in this instance? Y



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    What I read in their housing policy says that the LA's would hold the no charge leases,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    So the purchaser buys a house but doesn't own the land it stands on? The land is owned by the council.

    What is the advantage of the council retaining ownership of the land?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The buyer isn’t paying for the site. It’s proposed as an alternative to shared equity I assume.
    Will it work? I don’t know but it seems as sound as shred equity does to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,387 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Another disastrous opinion poll tonight for Sinn Fein tonight, down 4 to 23.

    I can only see the figures further dropping after some disastrous media performances of their candidates in the upcoming elections and their continued soft approach to refugees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    The advantage is that the buyer isn't paying for the site? Is that to reduce the cost? Who pays the cost of the site then? If buyer isn't paying for the site then they will not own the site their house stands on.

    That's very different to shared equity, where the buyer can purchase the house outright over time as a freehold property.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    Plus the fact that they want you to pay full whack for a house and not own it at the same time



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,387 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    The bubble has burst for Sinn Fein.

    I've made the prediction that Lynn Boylan is in serious danger of not winning a seat in Dublin.

    Not sure how Kathleen Funcion became a TD. One of the worst TDs I've ever seen. Her only luck is that the South has 5 seats available, only 4 in Dublin.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Who pays for any of the incentives/ grants/ etc at the moment?
    Its an idea, doesn’t seem to me any worse an idea to try.

    What’s your beef with it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    The taxpayer pays for the current incentives.

    The central plank of SF's claim to solve housing 'doesnt seem any worse an idea to try'. But is it any better? Putting a system in place that splits a residential property between leasehold and freehold is a big step. A very big step. Why does O'Broin want to do it? Not just to be different surely? What is the logic behind it? Does he want to eventually intoduce ground rent on people's houses? The system would open the door for future governments to do just that.

    The UK is one of the only (if not the only) country that has the leasehold system in place. It grew out of cash strapped landlords wanting to hold on to their ancestral property claims but still be able to extract value from their asset. At first glance it seems strange that SF would want to model their policy on an artefact of the British landlord system.

    If its only to be applied to public land, and there is no lease value to be paid, why bother with the system at all? If the local authorities have to acquire land then the cost of the site will still need to be financed in the transaction. A leasehold structure will not make the land free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,560 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    It's strange they don't put Rose Conway Walsh who seems to be one if their more capable TDs out to debate their case instead of hopeless good for nothings like O Reilly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I can kind of see the intent behind the council keeping the land for the purposes of reducing costs (the buyer doesn't pay for the land). However, it's just setting up future issues (money into the hands of the legal profession) and very few would want to buy that way while doing nothing to increase the supply (just stop objecting to houses getting built Sinn Fein…). The houses themselves become un-sellable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Seems to me to be totally different to the English system.
    I don’t know if it is any better an idea to some of the current ideas which aren’t working nor do I think it a sinister plot.
    The current government have had the latitude to try things why not a new government?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    The era of Mary Lou peering over her glasses; P Doherty shouting and roaring, and Matt Carthy being thick and belligerent is over for SF. A good era for them in terms of growth and acceptability, but they are screwed if they think that’s the strategy going forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,848 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If you keep saying it you might eventually be right. How long are you saying it now? 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭Finty Lemon


    How does it 'seem' different to the UK feudal landlord system? How is it better? In your opinion?

    Eoin O Broin has positioned himself as 'the man with the plan'. There has been little to no examination of said plan.

    My personal opinion is that the plan needs a thorough examination. Seeming different or hopefully better or change for the sake of it are very weak endorsements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    About 18 months now. The tide is going out for Mary Lou, Pearse, et al. Lynn is going to get a MEP seat in Dublin, but her voting record will the the source of much more scrutiny.

    Can’t imagine Ó Murchú, Farrell, Daly etc are sitting comfortably these days.

    Big big decisions for SF.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,387 ✭✭✭pureza


    Theres actually nothing wrong with O'Broins plan as long as the home owner is given the option to buy out the ground later with the state covering all legal expenses

    The state would not of course want to be seen to be making a profit,so the buy out figure should be fixed at the time of house build and written into the contract

    Nothing wrong at all with it

    @FrancieBrady If you could feed that back to O'Broin,I'd be most greatful 😆



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