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Multiple RTB Tenancies in 1 year

  • 25-05-2024 5:08pm
    #1
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭


    Hi there,

    I am wondering is it legal/perfectly fine to have multiple RTB tenancies in one year. For example, if I had 12 tenants in a 12 month period (each tenant staying for one month), could I create an RTB agreement for each of those tenants? Reason I am asking is to avail of the mortgage interest relief.

    Thanks



Comments

  • #2
    dennyk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭dennyk


    There's no limit to the number of tenancies that can be created in a year, per se, but where are you going to find a dozen tenants who only want to live in the property for exactly a month each? If you're trying to do some sort of scam by claiming that your AirBnB rentals are "tenancies" to evade taxes and/or the planning requirements for short-term lets, that's going to backfire on you eventually. I'd just keep in mind that it's a lot quicker to get rid of an overholding AirBnB guest than it is to get rid of an overholding tenant…



  • #3
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122184904#Comment_122184904

    Well Im not trying to carry out a scam :-D but staying within the letter of the law.

    You're right regarding taking the bookings via airbnb.

    What is wrong with taking one month plus long bookings and registering them as tenants? Airbnb only is illegal for bookings of 15 days or less so its fine by planning laws. So one month stays are perfectly legal.

    Then the question arises is it legal to have a tenancy for one month x 12 months. From what I can see it is.



  • #4
    xyz13
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 264 ✭✭xyz13


    Sorry not sorry OP.

    You clearly can't afford the house you want on one income, opening multiple threads trying to find ways to avail of this and that relief. Live within your means or keeping renting until you can afford the property you want.

    Bien faire et laisser dire...



  • #5
    dennyk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Nothing illegal about it, but you need to understand that by making your guests tenants, they will have significantly more legal rights and entitlements than a licensee would. Regardless of how long their booking is for, they don't have to leave at the end of their initial "lease"; if they decide they like it there and intend to stay, you'd have to issue them a valid notice of termination and give them a 90 day notice to vacate. If they refuse to leave even after that, then it'll be a year or more of RTB tribunals and expensive court proceedings to be rid of them. If you are in an RPZ, then RPZ limits will also apply to the rents; if you rent the place cheap for a month during the off-season, you won't be able to charge high season rates during the summer.

    The year-round market for long-term guests on AirBnB in general is also going to be fairly limited, and there is a high risk that a fair portion of your guests are in fact going to be people who have just moved to Ireland or who have recently been booted from their previous accommodation and are desperately searching for a place to live; if they end up in your place with a bona fide tenancy agreement in hand and their search comes to naught (as it probably will), they won't be going anywhere at the end of their initial booking.



  • #6
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185887#Comment_122185887

    I don't see the issue with investigating potential avenues to make money. Sorry not sorry.



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  • #7
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    That's a good point about being limited by the lowest rent I charge in one month, I hadn't thought of that. I suppose the solution there would be to only create tenancy agreements if it suits me, and have everyone else as normal airbnb guests.

    A close family member currently does long stays with airbnb in a property they own and it is booked for the entire year, most stays are one month but a few are 2-3 months, so I think it might make sense for these longer stays to create the tenancy agreement.

    I could also try filter the tenant versus airbnb guests based on the renter's reasoning for staying. We currently ask that anyway in that airbnb mentioned above already.

    Good food for thought, thanks!



  • #8
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185599#Comment_122185599

    There is going to be a restriction of advertising AirBnB without having planning. "where are you going to find "tenants" ?



  • #9
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122194900#Comment_122194900

    This is for short term lets no?



  • #10
    SharkMX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Why would you want the RTB involved. That will only lead to tears.

    There are plenty of site, besides AirBnB that people are using where people pay for 15 days but only stay 7, 8, 9, 14 etc, but the price is adjusted so that 15 days costs the same price as whatever amount of days they stay. The agreement is that they are only staying in it for the amount of days they book it for but but officially they have it for 15 days. (dont ask me for them because every time i mention them i get warned by a mod. Just google them. they arent hard to find).

    Where any law comes in there are loop holes and ways around it. Theres always a genius who can work around any restrictions, especially restrictions that get made up on the back of a beer mat by populist politicians. You just need to locate these sites yourself. As I said, its not hard to find them.



  • #11
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196418#Comment_122196418

    The advertising restrictions are going to apply to all platforms not just AirBnB. Some hotel managers have taken to checking for AirBnB in the ir local area and ratting to the council if they find any. Councils are serving warning notices and prosecuting in some cases. Some of the geniuses who find loopholes often end up in the District Court for their trouble.



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  • #12
    SharkMX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198702#Comment_122198702

    You say that like you believe that the advertising restrictions will cover all platforms on the web. I could tell you about 10 loopholes but you would come back telling me people get caught but i know a fair few people in the situation. not one is caught or even near caught. Nobody cares but posters on boards and tiktok. All the regulations are just populist window dressing to keep the tweeters happy. They arent enforce and if they ever are they it will be one or two token examples to show people (i mean, fool people into thinking) they are working.

    I would go into detail but I'll just get warnings and told by mods not to mention them again, so I wont. But its not hard to find them if you look yourself.



  • #13
    cfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭cfingers


    The advertising restrictions are not in force yet. Of course all sites won't follow the law but the big ones will - as it will be the advertising site breaking the law.

    The current restrictions are largely unenforced as they are unenforceable. Its currently not illegal to advertise short term let's without planning - only illegal to actual let short term which is hard to prove.



  • #14
    SharkMX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200696#Comment_122200696

    As I said, there are a lot of platforms. And they are beyond the reach of regulation in Ireland too.



  • #15
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200696#Comment_122200696

    There are people getting notices to stop doing it. It is easy enough to prove. Responding to and advert, paying for a night or two and turning up at the door and finding external keys etc is enough.

    It will be an offence for both owner and the platform to advertise when it comes into effect. Whatever about someone taking chances currently, it would be very foolish to commit to a mortgage in the expectation that the current regime will continue.

    The housing crisis is getting worse and stopping short-term lets is going to become more attractive as a means of alleviating the pressure.



  • #16
    cfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭cfingers


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207434#Comment_122207434

    Responding to advert and actually renting the place. In my view that is a lot of work. Hard to do that a scale for the council.

    the new regulations will be lot easier enforce. enforce could potentially just take screenshot and enforcement against the platform.



  • #17
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218111#Comment_122218111

    Dublin City Council serves a notice on the owner. A screenshot doesn't identify the owner and the operator of the platform may be out of the jurisdiction.



  • #18
    cfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭cfingers


    I agree it will be difficult/impossible for platforms that have no presence in Ireland, but the main ones Airbnb, booking.com will abide by the rules. New regulations will be lot easier to enforce than current regulations. That's my point.



  • #19
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,284 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227461#Comment_122227461

    The council always has to serve a notice on the owner. The only difference from a prosecution point of view is they only have to prove the place was advertised as opposed to proving it was used. The fact that the owner has to use a platform out of the jurisdiction , will, of itself, act as a disincentive. The main platforms can be trusted. the owner knows the money collected will be paid over. There is a method of reviewing intended visitors. The same applies to intending guests. they will not be as comfortable with an unknow platform so he business will automatically decrease.



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