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Airline/Airport/Travel questions and queries

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    #3002
    reactadabtc
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭reactadabtc


    Stupid question maybe, but I'm not an experienced flyer. Do I need to take my shoes off going through security?



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    #3003
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,173 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193124#Comment_122193124

    depends on the shoes tbh



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    #3004
    AndyBoBandy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,348 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122193124#Comment_122193124

    Generally if they go up over your ankles, yes they need to be removed, if they don't, then no.. (however security personnel could decide different on the day, depending on the shoe style etc)…



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    #3005
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Query regarding Flight Delay Compensation.

    My parents were flying back from Izmir, Turkey to Dublin on 1st June at 22.40 (local time) on EI799.

    They boarded the aircraft and while in the seats, the aircraft had to be emptied as it was deemed the crew had gone over their working hours.

    They were sent to a nearby hotel, got some drinks and snacks and brought back to the airport the following day for the same plane and crew to depart at 1400 (local time).

    They arrived back in Dublin that evening, Sunday 2nd June.

    I initially thought it was a straight forward EU261 claim but following a submission to Aer Lingus, their response was :

    "Thank you for contacting Aer Lingus.

    Upon review of your booking, we’ve determined that your journey does not meet the criteria for compensation under     EU Regulation 261/2004/UK APR/Canadian APPR. 

    We regret to inform you that your request for compensation cannot be accommodated. The primary reason for the delay was due to our crew went out of hours.

    We understand that any length of disruption can be inconvenient, and we apologise for this experience."

    Is this correct?

    Are they entitled to anything?

    My dad has the emails from EI stating the flight has been cancelled if that makes any difference?

    Thanks.



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    #3006
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    That’s correct, crew going out of hours isn’t applicable to EU261 so no compensation is required.



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    #3007
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247780#Comment_122247780

    You need to ask aer lingus why the crew went out of hours and what they think constitutes the extraordinary circumstance ruling out the compensation

    In my view you should have a case there if the reason for the crew going out of hours was a tech fault with the incoming plane for example which delayed things

    Write back to them requesting specefics,mention the aviation authority have been copied in on the email



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    #3008
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247983#Comment_122247983

    This is surely not inherently true? It depends on why the crew were out of hours.



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    #3009
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247983#Comment_122247983
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248334#Comment_122248334
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248335#Comment_122248335

    seemly, the outgoing flight was delayed leaving Dublin because of a medical issue with a passenger on the flight coming in. This is what was discussed among passengers etc, EI have not confirmed that to us.



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    #3010
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248355#Comment_122248355

    If they knew the crew would (likely) end up out of hours when it left Dublin due to a problem on an incoming flight to Dublin then I do not believe it would qualify. But you'd also need to fight it as they won't be inclined to offer up payment.



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    #3011
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248414#Comment_122248414

    Thanks. I could use this as an argument here. They should have known that the outgoing crew would breach their working hours before it left Dublin. That is something they can control.



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    #3012
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    The reason crew going out of hours isn’t a reason for compensation is to prevent airlines pressuring crews to operate knowing they could potentially exceed duty limits. It’s not relevant what caused the duty hours to be potentially reached on the return, the fact is they were. ADB is tight enough with hours to begin with so any delay can cause problems.



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    #3013
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248850#Comment_122248850

    I do not think this is correct. As per the judgement below for example, the crew simply going out of hours does not absolve the airline of the duty of compensation if there are reasonable measures they could have taken to avoid it. Now whether this defacto means anything is a rather different question

    https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62010CJ0294

    28      More particularly, to prevent any delay, even insignificant, to which extraordinary circumstances have given rise inevitably leading to cancellation of the flight, the reasonable air carrier must organise its resources in good time to provide for some reserve time, so as to be able, if possible, to operate that flight once the extraordinary circumstances have come to an end. If, in such a situation, an air carrier does not, however, have any reserve time, it cannot be concluded that it has taken all reasonable measures as provided for in Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004.



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    #3014
    Jacovs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    Along a similar line, my wife received an email from KLM monday evening at nearly 11pm (about 7 hours before departure time) saying the following regarding her Tuesday morning 05:55am flight:

    "We are sorry to inform you that your flight, KL1134 will operate without customers on board due to cabin crew reasons. Unfortunately, we were forced to take this decision."

    This is the first flight out of Dublin at 05:55am in the morning. And due to her connecting flight they couldnt rebook her onto the next flight that day, so they rebooked her onto the following day's flight, which means she will reach her destination about 24 hours later than scheduled.

    I assume this falls under EU261 for compensation?



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    #3015
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249142#Comment_122249142

    The reasonable reserve time referenced is accounted for in the crews FTL’s, it’s known as discretion and is basically an extra hour buffer as approved by EASA to account for this very type of event. So long as the airline allows for discretion to be used then they’ve covered themselves.

    As a caveat to “discretion” periods, any crew member may refuse to enter discretion if they don’t wish to continue operating and a flight cannot operate back to base knowing that they will exceed their discretionary period before arrival, even by a minute.



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    #3016
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭pureza


    As a point of information,I got fully compensated by EI in october 22 where crew went out of hours

    The underlying issues were weather(planes diverted away from DUB) due to thunder

    Our replacement plane went tech and by the time it was fixed ,the crew were out of hours and we were flown out at 8am next morning

    Comp claimed was hotel,taxi's and €400 EC261 cash

    Total was over €800



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    #3017
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249407#Comment_122249407

    Judging by the wording of your post this happened in DUB, which if it is the case then @Podge_irl point actually would apply, as one of the requirements on the airline would be to “organise resources” or translated to English, to have crew on reserve, which in DUB is reasonable but away from base not so much. It’s actually a very good example of the nuances involved.

    Post edited by Captain_Crash on


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    #3018
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249295#Comment_122249295

    The judgement makes the very specific point that there is no blanket approach possible but it is a case-by-case judgement on what is a reasonable accommodation.

    I don't doubt that airlines may have a policy of not paying out, but legally there is no blanket "out of hours" exemption for EU261 that I'm aware of.



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    #3019
    scudzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 11,932 ✭✭✭✭scudzilla


    Little fella (my kid, not my mickey) is mad about planes and gonna take him up to Dub to see a few take offs and landing, been a long time, is the mound still the best place now second runway is up?



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    #3020
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261022#Comment_122261022

    Yeah by far! The only downside now is you only get landings these days when the 28’s are in use. If the 10’s are in action then head over towards Horizon Business Park which is across from the threshold and you have a great view of the aircraft lining up for takeoff!

    There is also a viewing area by the new runway but it’s facing south so the suns in your eyes all day!



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    #3021
    Duff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭Duff


    Not sure if this is the right place, but has anyone any parking discount codes for Dublin Airport or any hotels near by? Flying out the start of July for 3 nights. Cheers, lads.



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    #3022
    pureza
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭pureza


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122271040#Comment_122271040

    Try the Maldron for 1 nights accomadation and 4 days parking in a park and fly

    The hilton do them aswell (as do others) albeit you'll need their shuttle courtesy bus

    Its not going to be easy to get a good rate in july



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    #3023
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,288 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    the car parks generally fill up for busy weekends and the peak summer months. There won’t be any discount codes



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    #3024
    boccy23
    Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭boccy23


    I am travelling with the family in July. The cost for the lounge is approx. €140 in T1. Is it worth it?



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    #3025
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273557#Comment_122273557

    No



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    #3026
    Comhrá
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭Comhrá


    Deleted.



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    #3027
    Jacovs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Jacovs


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249185#Comment_122249185

    To answer my own question, this did qualify for compensation. Claim lodged yesterday, and today already processed and money transferred to me.

    Wife got an extra day's holiday with her family, and I ended up paying about 98 euro for return flights from Cape Town to Dublin. Bargain.



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    #3028
    stargazer 68
    Registered Users Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭stargazer 68


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122273557#Comment_122273557

    Unless you plan on spending €140 on food and drinks in the airport then definitely not.



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    #3029
    EchoIndia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261049#Comment_122261049

    The perimeter road on the south side of the northern runway offers reasonable views of activity, with the advantage that it is a quiet road so it's a more pleasant location.



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    #3030
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122281199#Comment_122281199

    true, I’ve never stopped there but have seen YouTube streams and it’s nice and close



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    #3031
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249142#Comment_122249142

    We’ve been back and forth with IE and they are standing by their decision not to award compensation.

    I’ve escalated it to the IAA to see if they can retrieve anything further. Funny thing is the same flight was delayed a week later and 3 people I know got €1600 compensation between. Exactly the same. Crew went out of hours and they were put up over night.



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