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Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

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  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭boetstark


    In fairness its not just Ashford motors that have this policy. They won't even trade an ev even if it means selling a car they currently have in stock.

    I would hate to own a car that only certain garages will accept as a trade in. Unfortunately I currently own a Landrover discovery 5 and I will have that issue down the line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,425 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    All cars are unsuitable for all segments of the market

    A Micra is unsuitable for a family of 6, any coupe is unsuitable for a family of 5, a 7 seater is unsuitable for a single childless individual, a 3 litre car is unsuitable for someone who can't afford to tax or insure it, a 1 litre car is unsuitable for someone doing long range motorway driving……



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I was disappointed that Matt Cooper cut the interview after that bomb shell comment. He didn't look for an explanation or a comparison. Is it €0.5m per charger or for a bank of 4/6/8 chargers? Comparisons then like how much does it cost for petrol/diesel pumps and what is the "break-even" year for fuel pumps?

    Overall I got the impression that the representative wanted more charging infrastructure and was having a moan about the planning and connections process



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    cartakeback (dot) ie will always take a car off you and even pay you a bit for scrapping it



  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭boetstark


    Scrapping it 😱. I paid almost 70k for it a few months back. Alot of those car buying sites offer a pittance of real value.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    True- my point is, if EV sales are currently low, part of that is down to the fact that up to 30% of the population (as someone else previously mentioned) don’t have ability to charge at home because they are living in an apartment or don’t have off street parking - that has to impact EV sales surely?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The theory doesn't make much sense when you look into the numbers. I don't think we've reached a saturation point at 12.7% of market share (the number for 2024) based on only 12.7% of the population having off-street private charging capability. I think the cross section of people who purchase new cars and have access to a private driveway to charge is much higher than this. We should also ask the question, why has market share changed from 16.64% last year. Have we really built so many apartments to explain a 4% change in cars people buy?

    I can walk around my local area and see that there are plenty of off-street driveways with cars registered in the last 18 months that aren't EVs to know that private charging saturation is not yet a major cause. We should still be focusing on encouraging the transition for the easy cases instead.

    The government consultation on regional and local charging was opened 4 days ago, there is movement in the area to improving the charging situation and we have examples of mechanisms that work from other jurisdictions. Norway for instance saw 82.4% BEV share in 2023. I don't think 82.4% of Norwegians live in houses with private off-street parking.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/40f4b-draft-regional-and-local-ev-charging-network-plan/



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    According to the CSO we have 41.2% detached houses, 66.6% if you include semi-detached properties which generally have private parking. Your link indicates that detached plus semi's in Norway is 64.7%. I'd put that into the broadly the same category.

    It looks like the percentage of dwelling types doesn't go anyway to explain a market share difference of 80% vs 12.7%. Maybe it's explained by other things, like the erosion of consumer sentiment by fud media pieces and manufacturers already hitting targets this year allowing them to sweat combustion engine production assets before the change in regulations from 2025.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,763 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Irish times

    Ireland is second most expensive for EV charging in Europe, says report

    "Ireland’s second place in the table is due to an average of €22.25 per full charge, and €6.66 to drive 100km. Germany’s figures, for comparison, were €23.57 for a full charge, and €7.06 per 100km."

    Somewhat balanced with a range of views.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/motors/2024/05/28/ireland-is-second-most-expensive-for-ev-charging-in-europe-says-report/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3xe8Cxf4sGnvpjrSCeiQjcMPaT2FNXzg4rKQQPhdx58no6ZdcV6cyZhX8_aem_ARXH5XG_3aAxMuFFy-DFXg67_6lOiNHlwsMQ9LoW_x3gKZB3edQiXZnXq51Po_OG_tB-6fxyEk_VixJgEtLHYYkY



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I honestly can’t see the Irish population swayed by some “article” or other to the degree that it’s stifling growth of the EV car market- it’s likely the vast majority haven’t even bothered reading such articles whether good bad or indifferent to EVs

    Blaming articles on the very low uptake of EVs is just daft in my view - everything from increased numbers working from home, increased costs such as mortgages etc taking away income that could be used to buy a new car, increased costs of everything - all of the above and more besides are all significant factors - in addition, the EV new car prices are well above what people would pay for equivalent ICE cars a few years ago - so maybe these people are continuing to buy ICE- I know 6 people who brought new cars this year- not one of them purchased an EV



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,763 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Ashford motors have or had a porche EV for sale at an inflated price and it was not selling, surprise surprise.

    There are big into social media and click bait.

    It's really a big hype of lies and free airtime as advertisement for a motor dealer. Even the person themselves admitted exaggeration and not to take them too seriously. They specialise in high performance cars abd have lots of non EVs to shift in a high interest rate market that is quiet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 983 ✭✭✭boetstark


    It's not just Ashford motors. I could list at least 5 large garages that refuse Ev motors.

    As I said like ev's. We had one but the residual values are a lottery.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,007 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I don't think we've seen an increase in people working from home since this time last year, just as we haven't seen a significant change in the split of dwelling types. Your point about prices being higher for EVs than people would have spent for new cars is somewhat mute when we are talking about new market share. The bestselling car this year is a model that starts at €40,000. If your theory was correct, we'd see a drop in all drivetrains.

    I think you give far too much value to the ignorance of the Irish public that they haven't been influenced by the significant number of media articles that have been attacking EVs it's a bid to sell papers. The whole point of fud is to make people uncertain and to stick with what they know. The numbers show that it appears to be working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,527 ✭✭✭pah




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    The media, particularly with social media sites, love click bait articles that draw attention. You only have to ask someone about an EV, and you'll get the same old tropes. The cost of replacing a battery, the fires, the range, the tyres, charging. All nonsense stuff that media outlets love rehashing as it engages people and there are lots of people who will believe any old crap and regurgitate it as fact. Its not one article, its lots of misinformation and ridiculous articles, and on social media lots of inaccurate memes or "facts on a fancy picture". That all combines to one big fud.



  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭Gerrymandering reborn


    I think another problem is that EVs do not provide any real advantages over an ICE for the average consumer. People want to be 'climate conscious' and are hence choosing hybrids

    Obviously EVs are the best solution for a lot of people. But they are not the best and only solution for the rest of people. It seems EVs do not have the 'one size fits all' effect that was once anticipated despite many technological improvements.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,141 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I’ll put my hand up and say I’m not subject to those videos or whatever on social media so I’ll take your word for it.

    One thing I’ve noticed though in recent years before say Covid-the amount of 4x4 looking yokes on the road- the Skodas Hyundais and Kia’s no less VWs - there’s been an explosion of these cars and now even the micras and polos are all raised platforms high ride yokes - leaving aside the ID4 would I be correct in saying that so far, there isn’t a huge selection of these type of cars in EV equivalent?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    One thing that I haven't really seen in the news is that from 2025 the road transport fuel usage will have to be tracked and from 2028 at the latest, but probably aleady from 2027, the carbon credits are required to be purchased for all the fuel used by the transport sector. This levels the playing field with electricity for which this is already in place:

    https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets/ets2-buildings-road-transport-and-additional-sectors_en

    This will also affect home heating bills.

    I can only imagine the cries from the people whose 2024 ICE will be targeted by the greens and the FF. "We were not told."



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭eagerv


    One thing I’ve noticed though in recent years before say Covid-the
    amount of 4x4 looking yokes on the road- the Skodas Hyundais and Kia’s
    no less VWs - there’s been an explosion of these cars and now even the
    micras and polos are all raised platforms high ride yokes - leaving
    aside the ID4 would I be correct in saying that so far, there isn’t a
    huge selection of these type of cars in EV equivalent?

    Most EVs I see on the road are high looking yokes, whether at the cheaper end MG, BYD etc or mid/higher end such as Enyaq, Model Y, BMW, Volvo, Merc etc. And most coming are similar, Volvo, Renault etc.

    Very few 'normal' lower hatchbacks and saloons such as Model 3, Seal, etc.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,438 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    No, I’d say you’re incorrect tbh.

    Kia eNiro

    ID4

    Model Y

    Kona

    MG ZS

    Mini EX

    iX

    Mercedes

    Enyaq

    BZ4X (or whatever that’s called)

    Subaru EV

    To name but a few if looking higher up yokes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,252 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I disagree with you. There's a whole range of advantages of an EV for the "average consumer".

    But it's up to consumers to figure that out for themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    I’m an average consumer, who now has two EVs. Sure, I like the climate stuff but it wasn’t a key driver for me.

    The very real advantages to me include that it costs buttons to fill them up, a filling station in my driveway, cheaper motor tax, cheaper insurance, quicker acceleration, lots of gadgets and technology, and a nice smooth relaxing drive. Absolute no-brainer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Bovakinn


    I would have said that the average consumer would get the most advantages out of an EV.
    Never having to stop to "fill up", preconditioning the cabin on warm and cold days, a quieter and smoother driving experience, less maintenance, etc.

    Unless the average consumer is the person who does 1000km every day without stopping that we keep hearing about online.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭yagan


    BYD will be launching hybrid PHEV in europe soon so all the tech without the FUD anxieties. I didn't know this but supposedly BYD were the first car maker with PHEV.

    https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/transport-logistics/new-byd-hybrid-can-drive-non-stop-more-2000-kilometres

    BYD unveiled a new hybrid powertrain capable of travelling more than 2,000 kilometres without recharging or refuelling, intensifying the electric vehicle (EV) transition war against Toyota Motor and Volkswagen.

    The upgraded tech, which aims to put more distance between BYD and its legacy rivals, will be launched in two sedans immediately that cost under 100,000 yuan (S$19,013), the automaker said at an event live-streamed from China on Tuesday (May 28) evening.

    The longer range means some of BYD’s dual-mode plug-in electric hybrid cars can cover the equivalent of Singapore to Bangkok, New York to Miami or Munich to Madrid on a single charge and a full tank of gas. The milestone marks BYD’s latest achievement in slashing fuel consumption since debuting hybrids in 2008.

    I'd ignore the 2.000 Klm range as business websights always tend to overexaggerate to get attention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Surprising move. Considering Europe is going down the All-Electric route at the moment, can't see them selling many of them here anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭yagan


    Are European car makers going all EV though? They've still plenty of ICE models with EV versions like the Dacia Spring, but I reckon the likes of VW might be blindsided by consumers getting more bang for their buck with a BYD PHEV as an gateway towards eventual EV ubiquity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    No, the car makers are dragging their heels as per usual, I recon it's just that they hate change. But the EU and the UK will be rid of new non-BEV sales in just 10.5 years time. I presume this hybird model is at least 2 years away meaning BYD will have just 8.5 years of sales at a maximum



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