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Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭Sweet.Science


    They may have if rockets were being fired into their country from that area daily/weekly.

    Put cant compare as the scenarios are different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,465 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The majority viewpoint across the political spectrum in Ireland is almost certainly pro-Ukraine and pro-Palestine. It's really only the far right (pro-Russia and pro-Israel) and the far left / extreme left (pro Palestine, but anti-Ukraine as well) who would demur.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Whether they are granting a right is debatable, they are certainly enabling them by supplying weapons. With this in mind the US justice department stopped short of confirming this in a report on the matter due to political considerations, but it was clear they thought weapons supplied by the US had more than likely been used in violation of international law.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭crusd


    Ireland is broadly pro ukraine and pro palestine but there are increasing voices equating support of Palestine with support of Russia and the opposite



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭combat14




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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The difference is, as Michael Clarke points out , Israel does not take all measures necessary to avoid civilian casualties. It seems 40 dead civilians is deemed acceptable if they kill a couple of Hamas fighters in the process. Contrast that with the Americans who often called off many strikes in Mosul because the risk of lots of civilians death was deemed too great. We have seen time and again Israel conduct such strikes. Mark Regev ,an Israeli spokesman, admitted they wouldn't do the same if suspected Hamas fighters were surrounded by Israeli civilians in Tel Aviv. Why is that?

    You seems to be oblivious to the fact that democratic states have a duty to take all precautions necessary to minimise civilians casualties, it doesn't give them a free pass to do the opposite.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,470 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    THe Israeli ambassador said Ireland could lose tech investment from their move to recognise Palestine.

    I just googled and can't see any big Israeli tech companies. Am I missing something? Is she assuming all US tech companies are going to roll in behind her and leave Ireland? If so, she's an idiot.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    That will show them Israelis and feed the people of Gaza

    Biden turns out was doing it wrong all along building piers and airdropping billions in supplies

    It turns out all he had to do was raise the Palestinian flag on the White House lawn and send a “symbolic gesture that gives hope”

    /S



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Will0483


    When the mask slips, it slips. It's not bad faith to call out blatant anti-semitism wherever it rears its head. Surely, it should be possible to criticise current Israeli policy without stooping to that level.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Sending in aid, while supplying the weapons. Have you called for the US to stop supplying weapons? You are right though rather than symbolic gestures, if America took concrete actions against Israel, as Regan did , it might give Palestinians long term hope. Instead they are inviting Bibi to Washington.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    You don’t see how hollow, unproductive and downright hypocritical the moaning against Biden and Americans is? Especially while all we do here is “send symbolic gestures that offer hope”

    Can one eat hope? How many calories per day can hope and symbolic gestures provide??

    we even have posters on this thread cheering for Trump ffs 🤦‍♂️

    All this far left nonsense does is drive more people away from this topic



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Will0483


    Can you imagine if WW2 or Vietnam were reported on social media. Upwards of 20-30,000 were killed daily in the Somme and other battlefields but only Israel is held to account for every attack.

    Rwandans killed 700,000 people of a different tribe with machetes over a few weeks and I don't remember such hand-wringing on here. Was it because the perpetrators weren't Jewish?

    The last few months have shown that there is no real way for the "International Community" to stop any Nation doing what it likes. It's grand to vent here but in the real world, it's almost impossible to make a difference.

    It seems that the Israelis will stop when they feel like it and not a moment sooner. I don't agree with what they've done but don't see any obvious solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,330 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Rwandans killed 700,000 people of a different tribe with machetes over a few weeks and I don't remember such hand-wringing on here. Was it because the perpetrators weren't Jewish?

    or just maybe it’s because the site didn’t exist yet. Hell Quake didn’t even exist yet. Give the hell over.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,389 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    WTF are you taking about. Boards didn't exist when the Rwandan massacres were happening in 1994, and Rwanda to this day is synonymous with the most brutal ethnic violence.

    What you're doing here is like someone posting on 1994 social media saying that the Rwandan genocide is actually grand cause Hitler killed more people



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It's not hypocritical to call out Biden for having no red lines and continuing to supply weapons , that he even admitted could have been used in violation of their own rules on the use of such weapons? You know full well that if it was any other country there would be sanctions on Israel already for their policies in the West Bank. If anything the hypocrisy is on the right for inviting a suspected War Criminal to speak in Washington. The ICC was praised by Biden when it indicted Putin. Yet Biden denounced it for seeking an arrest warrant for Bibi. Do you see any double standards there? Do you only see hypocrisy on the left because of your own views?



  • Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Will0483


    The point still stands. Assad in Syria killed more people than Israel has and is still in power now yet goes unmentioned here.

    There have been several coups in African nations in the last year with thousands killed which have received almost no attention so it is notable how this conflict amongst all others has attracted so much attention.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,736 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Has anyone here excused Assad? As far as I am aware there was a thread on boards about the Syrian Civil war with the majority of posts being critical of Assad. In any case how does the look over there defense excuse Israel. Is bad conduct ok, because someone might have managed to kill more people in another conflict? The reason Israel gets attention is because they claim to be a liberal democracy and are backed up by a superpower, who would be calling for sanctions if another country pursued the policies Israel does.



  • Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭Balagan1


    I wouldn't bet on Rwanda being "synonymous with the most brutal ethic violence" for quite a few on here. And apparently the estimated hundreds of thousands of women and children raped and sexually assaulted in the course of those hellish months pales in the face of the IDFs " reputation for rape and sexual assault which is unparalleled in the modern world..." Go figure.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Theyre moving into the Israeli one when we throw them out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    So Ireland decides to join another 140+ countries who recognize the state of Palestine, people here say it's meaningless, it's just words.... Same time Israel threaten of financial repercussions to Ireland. Is Israel overreacting or is it more than thoughts and prayers?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭Gerrymandering reborn


    It's quite mad who some people can be so selective in these situations.

    People are constantly putting up signs of boycotting Puma and Siemens because they are Israeli. Yet no body will discuss the elephant in the room that, on one hand Ireland has been one of the most vocal critic of Israel. Yet at the same time, Ireland has blood on its hand because it continues to accommodate US tech companies that are contributing to the suffering of the Palestinian people to the taxes they pay. The situation would not be half as bad as it is now without US support.

    Why aren't people boycotting Apple or spotify?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    It’s not only the height of hypocrisy (as we in Ireland only sent thoughts and prayers and symbolic gestures) but is also dangerous and will backfire baldy on the Palestinians if the constant nonsense contributes to Trump getting elected as per the Guardian article I posted earlier



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,768 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Your “ point “ doesn’t stand… what actually is your point? Is it Israel can do what it wants because some other group of people in the past did worse?

    Is this the last straw the Pro Israel side have to clutch?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    I’ve been consistent in calling it an empty gesture in both cases

    Not only that but we missed an opportunity to make the recognition conditional on release of hostages, an action that would take the wind out of Israeli narratives and actually potentially lead to peace

    But hey who cares about actually solving this, seems the far left only cares about point scoring and tearing the center left apart



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Well Spotify is Swedish so there is that. I think a boycott of Israeli companies is a start but it would only really work if there was an international movement to do this.

    I think the US government is more to blame than any US tech company.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Nitpick; Siemens is German traded on German stock exchange



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    On the contrary. Because you don't anyone jumping through hoops to handwave away any of these atrocities, there doesn't need to be people highlighting just how abhorrent they are.

    They are widely regarded as such, and there are levers such as sanctions , cutting diplomatic ties and sending aid where required happening.

    Assas was headline news for years. Syria is still widely spoke about.

    In the USA, Blinken has decried the ethnic cleansing currently happening in Ethiopia. Now Ethiopia is one of those rare gems for the USA, a country in which they have a rare strategic alliance so they know how to call out war crimes , ethnic cleansing ans what amounts to genocide when it suits them.

    The double standard is entirely on the side of Israel and its defenders



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    You mean the same Joe Biden who has sent Israel the exact weaponry to slaughter children, that Joe Biden?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    That's true, had we told Israel to release the thousands of Palestinian hostages in their prisons or we will recognize the state of Palestine, that would have freed more hostages right? /s

    In a way, countries who call for a 2 state solution but only recognize one side as a state is a little baffling.

    People are deluded that if Hamas handed over the remaining hostages that Israel would just pull out. It will be 'we have to carry on to find the bodies of other hostages' followed by 'we have to carry on and eliminate Hamas' then it's the tunnels and the command centers etc..



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭combat14




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