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National Biomethane Strategy

  • 29-05-2024 10:32am
    #1
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭


    The Government have finally announced their National Biomethane Strategy. This is their attempt to get AD plants up and running at scale across the country in order to inject biogas into the grid with the ultimate aim to become less dependent on fossil fuels.

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d115e-national-biomethane-strategy/

    There's a good bit in it to digest (pardon the pun). I fully support this move to get AD plants running. They are a proven technology and are very common across the UK and EU.

    Few things I don't get:

    1. The spiel is that this is good for agriculture. That's not obvious to me. The benefits of this biogas will be credited to the energy sector. From the agri sector, it's said that the reduce emissions will be credited to agri. I don't see how bar maybe less methane in the air, but that's only if the number of cattle is reduced. That isn't guaranteed. To grow the grass for an AD or a cow will require the same inputs, with possibly more chemical fertilisers owing to the absence of slurry. Plus as stocking rates decrease on land feeding these, the amount of fertiliser allowed to be used will reduce, thus reducing yields and around we go.
    2. There's nothing in there to aid planning and the problems in that area. Actually, there is because the plan is to increase "awareness of AD technology would improve understanding and consistency of approach by planning authorities to assessing proposed AD developments." Horse manure! We've already seen An Táisce come out and piss all over this strategy.. That's a sure sign that they'll be objecting like mad at any plant that goes in for permission.
    3. Currently digestate is seen as a waste product, often given away to surrounding farmers. However, this proposal turns that on it's head and suggests that this should be sold. This of course benefits the AD plant operators who get an extra input stream. Furthermore, the government don't plan to subsidise the gas production and are hoping that the sale of digestate will lead to the gas prices being kept down.
    4. There's a hope that slurry will be diverted to these plants and not spread on land. However, any plant operator worth their salt won't be interested in taking in much slurry as the output from it is a fraction of what quality grass would provide. In addition, the slurry going in will still need digestate to come out and be spread. Savings from slurry spreading are negligible in my view. Therefore, the plan is to dry the digestate into solids - "The utilisation of digestate is expected to have a further positive impact on water quality in Ireland. Digestate will be processed (water removed and recirculated into the AD process) leaving mainly a fibrous material, which when spread is less susceptible to enter the watercourse."
    5. Currently these plants are subject to EPA licencing. To get a licence could take anything from 15-24 months. The solution here is not to streamline the requirement, but some wishy washy hope that adding more people to the EPA will improve things.



Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Will follow this thread. I think it’s a no brainer to get a few up & running.

    I Just hope they don’t make an absolute balls of it.



  • #3
    Siamsa Sessions
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058353715/national-biomethane-strategy

    Do you see the issues you outline being addressed? Coz they look like immovable objects to me. And the Govt are not presenting any unstoppable force in the form of bankrolling the set-up.

    How are those issues managed in the UK and Europe? Or are they unique to Ireland?

    Trading as Sullivan’s Farm on YouTube



  • #4
    jaymla627
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058353715/national-biomethane-strategy

    The bord na mona ad plant if its ever built will be a intresting bellweather, where theyll get ground for silage/digestate etc is puzzling, given the competition for ground in that area

    https://www.leinsterexpress.ie/news/ecolive/1436673/plans-for-massive-laois-anaerobic-digestion-plant-progressing.html



  • #5
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Waffletractor doesn’t have anything good to say about the one near him in UK. Haulage on bad roads and every bit of land that comes up for rent within a 10 mile radius is grabbed to grow maize.
    Economics of it really depends on a subsidised electricity price AFAIK. If nobody buys the waste then they will have to give it away if they can’t spread it on their own land. NIMBYs will be busy too.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • #6
    Castlekeeper
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    Is it more energy efficient per acre than solar panels? If not, is it not a waste of time? I thought, as a country, we were trying to reduce emissions from transport, actually no I didn't, because we are actively doing the opposite.

    It would be a great boon to contractors in a locality .



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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    one thing we have in Ireland is plenty of grass & cow 💩

    But isnt the main feedstock for these maize/corn?
    Nothing environmentally friendly though about the way maize is grown.



  • #8
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭alps


    Daft strategy.

    Only emissions savings here are for the industries that replace current gas supplies with the biomethane gas.

    Agriculture emissions will probably rise on the back of it...more fertiliser usage and a savage lift in the burning of green diesel.

    Where a cow harvested before, we will now have tractors..harvesting and haulage of feedstock, seperation of slurry on farm, haulage of seperated slurry, haulage of digestate back to farms.

    Currently digestate is considered an organic fertiliser so can't be taken back onto a derogation farm. Other farms can't breach 170kg taking this in so unless it can get classed as a chemical fert or the powers that be allow a combined chemical plus organic limit, this will be a vey unhelpful runner.



  • #9
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197688#Comment_122197688

    I see us skirting around it with some daft plan. Some can of course be overcome. Things like the planning and licencing requirements could be simplified with the swipe of a pen.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197758#Comment_122197758

    The strategy is not to subsidise the output (Irelands plan is not to generate power, but to produce gas). The strategy is to legislate that a higher % of gas use must be biogas, therefore giving a guaranteed market to the producers without the need to subsidise so they can compete on price with natural gas.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197769#Comment_122197769

    Don't know about the efficiency, but the goal is to produce gas, not power. The use cases are different

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197777#Comment_122197777

    Grass will be the main input eventually. You get more bang for your buck. Maize isn't as good for the plants.



  • #10
    dmakc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭dmakc


    So they want 5% of the country's best grassland (& reduce cattle numbers), and they want 20% of the country's slurry output (likely greater given said reduction in cattle numbers, and nutrients not being returned to land). Is this not some sort of downward spiral?

    Any publication with Eamon Ryan's face on it should be treated with a healthy dose of scepticism.



  • #11
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Months ago Eamon Ryan was saying permission would only be granted if it was no input multi species swards used as feedstock. It's what he's reading in books.

    Reality will be maize and whole crop cereals like ad digesters from UK to Europe.

    Pragmatism in operation and efficiency will dictate that.

    As @jaymla627 pointed out before ropey silage that would feed a dry cow won't be wanted. Eamon threw in something about this helping small farmers. No it won't.



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  • #12
    Birdnuts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭Birdnuts


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197688#Comment_122197688

    In Germany there has been issues with Methane Leakage, Water pollution , loss of Biodiversity rich natural grasslands, displacement of food crops etc. Thats b4 you get into its rather dubious economics. The Biomethane Strategy mentioned by the OP states that plants will only get a licence if they address these issues, but knowing the way things are done in this country, i can see it being a right mess with shades of the "Ash for Cash" debacle in NI



  • #13
    Conversations 3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Conversations 3


    Farmer Phil visited a plant over the boarder, the lads running it say the Republic isn't set up for them to be successful.

    It's a good insight into the plant and what it takes to feed it, mostly top quality silage.

    https://youtu.be/tv6VNk7gudo?si=dEwZJeexyK1HQ7gn



  • #14
    tractorporn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200665#Comment_122200665

    Really interesting video, this strategy is not going to be the silver bullet that certian people think it is. 600 acres, actually 2400 acres needed to feed it and dispose of the digestate, maybe they see it as a way of reducing cattle numbers with officially putting a reduction scheme in place?



  • #15
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201127#Comment_122201127

    115,000 the number of cattle is down on last year in Ireland. And no reduction scheme.

    It's all the little niggly regulations brought in year on year and other land use options looking more appealing with less work day on day.

    Even our President Miggledy is getting behind what politicians call Just Transition and said we shouldn't be exporting milk powder to China or whiskey globally. Should be no food products exported out of the country. Bring the people here instead to eat. Just transition.



  • #16
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Any of these plants will have to have guaranteed feed supply in place before they build. No point building and then go looking for thousands of acres to feed it, with no guarantee of a constant feed supply year after year



  • #17
    Hard Knocks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,120 ✭✭✭Hard Knocks


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201346#Comment_122201346

    That’s my concern. I’d rather we send the foodstuff to them in their own country rather than overpopulate this island. I wonder if the people who want us to stop producing for export would give up their imported items



  • #18
    Conversations 3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 604 ✭✭✭Conversations 3


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201127#Comment_122201127

    You would have to get ten or more farmers to agree to feed it and forget about animals at all.

    Pay them well and maybe have them growing and harvesting the silage under the AD company.

    Getting ten farmers to agree would be the hardest part of getting it up and running.



  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Has anybody done the financials if say your typical 100 acre beef or tillage farm was to convert from the extremely poor returns of thats system,

    to a system of growing forage (preferably top quality grass) for a plant like these?

    From an economic point of view surely you’d be better off as a farmer.



  • #20
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    In the most unlikely places an AD plant has been approved for in North Mayo, Lisglennon. It's plans are to source 42,500 tons of grass silage and 18,000 tons of slurry in the locality. With the digestate spread back in the area. It'll have an 8.6km gas pipeline built to connect it to the gas grid.

    That'll be a fair big silage pit and slurry tank built in Lisglennon.

    google.com/maps/place/Lisglennon,+Co.+Mayo/@54.1856572,-9.2232004,972m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x48593a3f97248ee7:0x2600c7a7bb4c98c2!8m2!3d54.1864392!4d-9.2247338!16s%2Fg%2F1tkmlz5c?entry=ttu



  • #21
    mayota
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭mayota


    Next door to this.

    https://www.westernpeople.ie/news/permission-granted-for-biomass-power-station_arid-12175.html



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  • #22
    alps
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,174 ✭✭✭alps


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204070#Comment_122204070

    This is insane..i



  • #23
    Say my name
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,947 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204070#Comment_122204070

    At least you'll have any quantity of ash to spread instead of lime.

    Back to importing timber again though and this time for a data center.



  • #24
    tabby aspreme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    The original plan for that power station was too ship biomass from South America, it's hard to fathom how warped some of these green energy schemes are



  • #25
    mayota
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,557 ✭✭✭mayota


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204154#Comment_122204154

    Ya, that and North America, it was somehow classed as renewable energy and qualified for the tariff, local sitka spruce wasn't.



  • #26
    roosterman71
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204154#Comment_122204154

    Shipped to Killybegs, and hauled by thousands of trucks down to the power station. It's sustainable though



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