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No conviction for west Cork landlord who took away tenants car, dug a big hole and buried it.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You didn't say I'll sort ye out when I get back from my hols did you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭SharkMX




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    @Boggles

    On what grounds has the District Court erred?

    as you said :

    He determined the Tribunal was not conducted fairly.

    whereas :

    The RTB tribunal and subsequent appeal has absolutely nothing to do with the District Court.

    Agreed. The District Court does not have the jurisdiction to act as a backdoor to appeal or vary a RTB determination. In my view the District Court erred in not granting the Execution Order and the ex-tenant should be awarded full costs of having to take their application for an Execution Order any further than the District Court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Leased, as in paying for the use. If they're not paying, then is the lease valid anymore? I know the RTB will say yes, it's valid until they are evicted but back in the real world, people have to pay mortgages and so forth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 752 ✭✭✭dontmindme


    Yeh but in the real world, as your tenant, how you decide how to finance your investment is none of my business, nor should it be any of my business.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    She sorted it within 72hours of being notified. I rang up a few days later, once I realised it wasn't a spam message when checking my bank a/c and being better off than expected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,747 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    It’s still ongoing -,if it succeeds I don’t think anyone would like to have a 40k debt hanging over them



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Are you suggesting the RTB have the legal authority to compel a judge to endorse their findings?

    They don't.

    It's a separate process, it's a court case.

    The Respondent is legally entitled to oppose the application and submit reasons why in an Affidavit.

    It's up to the Judge then to dismiss it or adjourn the case to allow it.

    What happened in this case is the Judge found that the tribunal was not conducted in accordance with the law.

    i.e because of ill health he couldn't attend.

    https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/125/enacted/en/html#:~:text=that%2C%20in%20relation%20to%20a,Circuit%20Court%20may%2C%20subject%20to



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    She didn't sort September, that was to be done when she got back from Hols some time in October.

    But the answer to the question is, no.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    The report I read said she noticed 2 days after his text message and paid the next day, sending him an apology text explaining what happened. She also paid September immediately as well, and presumed the matter sorted but he just moved I to the house while the daughter was away at college, and they discovered this in October.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Don't get me wrong, I'd be livid with some of the behaviour of some tenants in Ireland but in this case she had rented for four years, always paid on time, and one mistake, which while big, was rectified as soon as was reasonable for her. He waited for two months before notifying her. Yes, she was in the wrong, but the posts on here painting her as someone who had form this are misleading and disingenuous.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Well. There is 2 ways of looking at that. He was the model landlord until the rent wasn't paid.

    There was also some trouble with damage to property.

    Maybe the i'll pay you for September when I get back from my hols in October was Strike 3.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    She paid before she was back and the damage he described and been repaired the year previously. He also put in claims to repair furniture to the tune of 18k and it turns out the furniture was not his but hers, she just couldn't take it back. So that's another way of looking at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You are not looking at it chronologically. By the time all that came out the relationship had beyond soured.

    I would suggest getting a lad with cancer arrested and charged over a bullshít van you were happy to let rot was abhorrent.

    Also the matter the RTB awarded her 1500 and 500 for the Fiat.

    The Judge found there was no monetary value for the van and Fiat was burned, surely insurance would have paid out on that?

    Or is it like i suspect neither was road worthy and she was using the property like a scrap yard.

    A lot more to this story then we are aware, it's the reason IMO 2 separate Judges have been beyond sympathetic towards him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    I suspect theres a few landlords posting here trying to paint her as a serial non payer when she was paying on time for 4 years. Stories about some tenants refusing to pay for years but she's late for two months which she pays in full and shes a baddie? Landlord sounds like a real scumbag. Heres the story…

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/illegally-evicted-mum-had-car-burnt-out-and-belongings-destroyed-and-dumped-in-a-shed/42445378.html

    A tenant who was illegally evicted from her rental home had her car burnt
    out, all her belongings thrown into a shed and the gardaí had to be
    called to the property so her husband’s ashes could be retrieved.

    Gabriela Lake, a mother-of-three who had been renting a house in Skibbereen,
    west Cork for four years, said the eviction has caused her family severe
    stress and anxiety.

    Despite being unlawfully evicted more than six months ago, and taking a
    successful case with the rental watchdog, Ms Lake has still not been
    able to get some of her belongings back, including sentimental items
    from her late husband, who passed away suddenly in 2019 on their 30th
    wedding anniversary.

    Valuable clothes, iPads and jewellery were also damaged. Her former landlord
    Colin O’Sullivan has refused access to the property on a number of
    occasions since the eviction.

    Every summer she travels home to the United States, where she is from, for a
    few months and continues to pay rent while away. In July, she texted Mr
    O’Sullivan saying her daughter would be making the payments while she
    was in the US.

    However, she didn’t realise her daughter had forgotten to deposit the rent for
    July and August. A close friend tragically died and the rent payments
    slipped her mind.

    On September 6, the landlord sent a text saying: “You would want to start making an effort.

    https://www.sundayworld.com/videos/landlord-tells-ex-tenant-hell-return-valuables-if-she-knocks-16000-off-her-rtb-award/a735317043.html

    A landlord who illegally evicted a tenant has said he will return her
    valuable first-edition books if they will be offset against the €18,500
    damages he was ordered to pay by the rental watchdog. Gabriela Lake, who
    previously rented a house in Union Hall, Skibbereen, west Cork from
    landlord Colin O’Sullivan, has been awarded nearly €40,000 after taking
    two cases with the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) over her
    “horrendous” experience. She has yet to receive a penny.

    Despite being ordered by the RTB to return all of her belongings, Mr
    O’Sullivan insisted that he was “forced to dispose” of everything.
    Clothes, iPads, jewellery, furniture and sentimental items from her late
    husband were all left in the house. However, in a letter sent through
    his solicitors this month, Mr O’Sullivan advised he has now “retrieved”
    books that she left on the mantelpiece, estimated to be worth €16,000.
    He was ordered by the RTB to pay €18,500 for unlawfully evicting Ms Lake
    and her daughter. After claiming all her belongings had been disposed
    of, Mr O’Sullivan has now said her books are being held at his
    solicitor’s office “on trust”. “Ms Lake gave evidence to the effect that
    she had left books on the mantelpiece worth €16,000,” the solicitor’s
    letter states. “Mr O’Sullivan has retrieved these books and this office
    holds the same on trust, which we trust will be accepted as part payment
    of the sum of €18,500.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Thanks for that. The law is never simple!

    However section 125 (2)
    "The powers mentioned in subsection (1) are to direct the Director to cancel
    the determination order and direct that a fresh determination of the matter shall be
    made by the adjudicator or the Tribunal as appropriate (and the making of any such
    fresh determination shall be preceded by a re-hearing of the matter by the adjudicator
    or the Tribunal and the provisions of Chapters 4 to 7 shall apply accordingly)."

    would seem to limit the District Court to sending the matter back to the RTB for re-hearing (including whether there were grounds for re-hearing).

    I read a little more of the background. Both the RTB and it's appeals Tribunal found against the landlord. Maybe third time lucky - although I wouldn't fancy his chances of the RTB finding they had erred twice. If he's lucky they might just reject the re-hearing on lack of grounds. If he's unlucky they could increase the amount awarded in their determination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    If he's unlucky they could increase the amount awarded in their determination

    They awarded 5 and a half grand for a doggie hotel and 2 worthless scrap vehicles.

    Increasing that would be an absolute joke.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Insane that some people here think it's okay for a landlord to burn out someone's car because they are late in paying rent. Literal criminal behaviour

    What next, Colin o Sullivan will be breaking tenants legs for late payments?

    Beggars belief



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Patrick2010




  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    But there was no evidence he burnt out the car. The guards investigated.

    He freely admitted to burying the van. He didn't have to, it's not like the guards would have started digging up fields to find it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The Judge in the case citied said it had no monetary value.

    The RTB generously awarded 500 euro for the Fiat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,899 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Strange case.

    Just a quick question that I didn't see answered in the thread.

    Does anyone know what happened to the buried car ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Ah yes, the same man who illegally evicted them from this house and took one of their cars to bury it in his field had nothing to do with the car that burned out in the back of the house, after he had evicted the tenants and their belongings.

    What a coincidence

    As I said, literal thug behaviour



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,460 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    All in, the RTB determination was for €40,000 for an illegal eviction that was on the worst end of the scale. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that it could be increased if they look at the case again.

    Where RTB hearings are commonly virtual and there is no requirement for legal representation, I don't see how the landlord could claim the RTB didn't follow proper process, twice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,073 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    they also have to abide by the laws of the land, which don't allow for illegal evictions and illegal disposal of vehicles.

    there are processes to deal with both situations.

    having to pay a mortgage does not get you out of your other responsibilities.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    There are scumbag tenants, they deserve worse than they get but nothing reported in any paper implies that she was even close to a scumbag tenant. Kinda sounds like the tenant most landlords want. Long lasting, responsive, not there half the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,010 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12 puchica


    He had me pay rent to an account in the UK. In June I texted him letting him know I’d be leaving for the summer and my daughter who lives in London would deposit July and August before she left in early July (rent was due on the 9th) and I’d take care of Sep on my return. We were in contact throughout the summer as I was refurbishing an Airbnb and he’s a contractor. Not once did he mention rent not being paid and just kept asking for a Carrhart jacket. Sept 6th he texted saying he’d not received rent and on the 7th that he was moving back in. I saw the WhatsApp on Friday the 9th and immediately replied, apologize and explained what had happened and paid rent Monday, including September since I was delaying my return by a few weeks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12 puchica


    He had me pay rent to an account in the UK. In June I texted him letting him know I’d be leaving for the summer and my daughter who lives in London would deposit July and August before she left in early July (rent was due on the 9th) and I’d take care of Sep on my return. We were in contact throughout the summer as I was refurbishing an Airbnb and he’s a contractor. Not once did he mention rent not being paid and just kept asking for a Carrhart jacket. Sept 6th he texted saying he’d not received rent and on the 7th that he was moving back in. I saw the WhatsApp on Friday the 9th and immediately replied, apologize and explained what had happened and paid rent Monday, including September since I was delaying my return by a few weeks.



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