Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Yeah, there can be circumstances where it's necessary and there may well be circumstances in which someone might — of their own volition — decide to get circumcised for their own reasons. But the fact remains that it is performed perfectly lawfully on infants across the West for reasons which are often just religious or cultural. So I do think the point stands that we can be a little blind to our own biases on the topic of genital mutilation sometimes.

And I do think the wider relevance there is that we can also hold a lot of subconscious biases or hypocrisy when it comes to our assessment of other cultures etc. Anyway — will park the circumcision point there.

I agree with you on FGM .

It is this very abuse of defenceless young girls and their mothers that has them fleeing and looking for asylum here and elsewhere .

Glad you acknowledge the issue .

It isn't just war that creates refugees .

Heard Nick Henderson of the 'Refugee Council' on again this morning. He seems to get an excessive amount of airtime on the national broadcaster. Nick is still of the opinion that it's a matter of educating the Irish public as to our obligations. He seems to regard us as illiterate peasants, incapable of understanding what is happening and at risk of falling prey to right wing fascists.

I'm writing to all our TDs and Euro hopefuls today, urging them to defund Mick and his cronies.

I get what you're saying but to be honest, I find you a wee bit patronising. I'm not aware that male circumcision is widely practised in Ireland amongst Irish people apart from the small Jewish community.

However, there are two big differences. Female circumcision is carried out on girls at a stage of development where it is both terrifying and excruciatingly painful. It's also frequently done at home and can lead to infection or even death. In adulthood childbirth is far more difficult as their genitals are often sewn up with a small opening. The other difference of course is the infringement of their natural right to a normal sex life. I think circumcised males can still enjoy that.

I wouldn't think so .

I was clarifying the point that people from certain areas of the world are fleeing horrific torture and practises as described and not just war .

What do you think on the subject ?

Your statement "I'm sure we all agree that leaving anyone to sleep on the streets is not an acceptable occurrence.", is discussed in the classic Aesop's tables tale, the grasshopper and the ant.

The outcome is different than your assumption.

That's the thing isn't it. Someone coming here isn't just going to change their views overnight in the same way that if we move to Saudi Arabia we are not just going to start thinking that being gay is a sin and women shouldn't be seen in public and should be covered from head to toe. It's the elephant in the room but uncontrolled mass immigration is very likely to bring a lot of beliefs that are not compatible with Western societies. I mean on the topic of FGM, that was not a thing in Ireland before. But now it is. I don't know what the answer is, before anyone asks. But I also don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge this

Not saying it doesn't happen but they are subject to our laws .People have been prosecuted for carrying it out in Ireland .

My point is that there are people fleeing torture like that practise and others ,not just war , and it's carried out in many African countries unfortunately, not just Somalia.

As to people not changing their practices ,not criminal .. that is true .

But why do you expect people to change everything in their culture , like dress and religion ?

It is however important they accept our laws and any that don't should be deported.

There are many gay people fleeing abuse and torture also btw.

Of course they are homeless, they don't need to sleep on the streets because accomodation is provided. They are still homeless.

If a parent of a child with scoliosis believes that their child's human rights are being violated, then they too can bring a case before the courts.

The idea that non Irish have more rights then Irish people is ridiculous and unfounded.

Not that I believe someone should have to take a case for basic health care, it obviously should be provided for.

I think the point is that parents of very sick children are expected to fight these battles on their own- taking on the state before the courts is a huge burden for the parents on top of looking after sick children. Whereas there seem to be no end to lawyers and NGOs willing to fight on behalf of AS but not the equivalent amount willing to do the same for Irish people

Independent groups like Disability Federation Ireland , Spina Bifida Association , Enable Ireland are all helping various families with children with Scoliosis .

Straight Ahead Ireland is a charity group through CHI which is specifically aimed at getting children their surgeries .

Free Legal Aid in Ireland has been fighting for ordinary people's rights for decades , work related issues that go to WRC , social welfare legislation ,equality issues .

Even the ICCL has been advocating for human rights and equality for years but now some people are saying it's all about refugees !

This is just NGO bashing , yet again ,

No i don't think our guests should be housed before our own people nor do I think people with holiday homes should be forced to hand them over at the end off the day they own them.

Please — play the ball, not the man. You are not forced to read my posts.

Unless you're saying that female genital mutilation would be considered perfectly fine by Western sensibilities if it was done to the highest standards of sabitary surgical excellence, then I don't see the relevance of the medical standards point.

Furthermore, circumcision also affects sensation and the experience of sex, and part of the reasoning for the development of the cultural phenomenon was indeed the dulling of sexual sensation and discouragement of masturbation . https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17155977/

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/236771919_The_Masturbation_Taboo_and_the_Rise_of_Routine_Male_Circumcision_A_Review_of_the_Historiography

As for its prevalence, an old article yes but suggests that 500-600 per year may be carried out in Ireland and the vast majority are for cultural reasons. I don't know what the numbers are now but the legality certainly remains in place without much societal concern. https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-20239186.html#:~:text=Sri%20Paran%2C%20a%20paediatric%20consultant,90%25%20done%20for%20cultural%20reasons.

I don't know for sure but would think there are proceedings incoming , civil .

Not really a topic for this thread but aside from bashing NGOs have you or anyone else upset about written to your TDs about it?

Stephen Donnelly should be getting way more exposure over this .