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New Weekly Basic Income for Artists

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Why don't they get a real job and then use that to pay for their little hobby.

    Another group of scroungers we have to foot the bill for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    If you are actually from Galway, you should be ashamed. Where would your city be if it wasn't for Macnas and Druid putting it on the map?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,806 ✭✭✭buried


    I actively work in the indigenous Irish creative artwork field, I heard of this scheme back then but chose not to involve myself in it. Too much small print about the authorities collating your data as long as you signed up. No thanks lads, I'll keep my business to myself. The establishment had no part in the creation of my trade so I wasn't giving them a part now. Didn't need the income anyways.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    are you referring to my point about greyhound racing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    If I was referring to you I'd have quoted you.

    Hopefully that clears up any confusion.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    a simple 'no' would have been fine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Managing to get quite a few major companies who pay good salaries is what put it on the map, if they all upped sticks in the morning all that other nonsence wouldn't be much benefit to the city.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    B*llocks. Medtronic, Boston Scientific…

    They're not exactly synonymous with Galway, are they? If the tax incentives that keep them there dried up, you know they'd be gone. The clue is in what you posted.

    Managing to get quite a few major companies

    Means that they're not native to Galway if you had to "get" them in. And I can guarantee you, the arts was absolutely used in one way or another to bring them in. It always is. Whether it's a show to relax the potential investors, or some musicians over a gala dinner. The arts and culture are always used in this country to woo investors in. It's not just tax breaks, or they'd all be based in tax havens elsewhere.

    Honestly, you should be ashamed of yourself. Your county (If you're from there, you didn't confirm) could be the strongest county in Ireland for arts and culture. At the moment it's far from it. Galway city doesn't even have specific rehearsal spaces available for theatre!



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It wasn't a cost-benefit analysis; it was an impact assessment, aiming to answer questions like "What has the impact of this spending been? What has changed as a result of this programme?" Those are the kinds of question that you have to answer before you can do a cost-benefit analysis.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,383 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    I'm not saying we don't have great writers. I'm saying if you ask the random population in most countries around the world which country is known for art and writers nobody will say Ireland.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I dunno — we do punch well above our weight when it comes to literature, and lots of people who are not Irish are well aware of that. Not least because we write largely in English, Irish literature has a wider reach and acheives wider recognition that it otherwise might. But there's more going on than that. Other anglophone countries with a population roughtly comparable in size to ours would be e.g. New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Scotland. Have any of them produced literary figures with the stature and global recognition of, say, James Joyce, Samuel Beckett, WB Yeats? Would any have as many Nobel Prizes in literature as Ireland has?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Let's take that at face value. Maybe it then becomes a reason to try something like this.

    You subsidise something that needs to be subsidised, rather than something that doesn't need to be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    And if you were talking to a person who is passionate about literature, we'd absolutely be in the top 5 countries of many and the positioning would largely down to personal preference. Joyce or Wilde tend to end up ranked alongside Tolstoy and Faulkner. We're basically top tier in terms of greatest authors of time. Contemporary we've got the likes of Sebastian Barry, Colm Toibin, John Banville, Sally Rooney, Colm McCann and Joseph O'Connor. And I'm omitting loads of names. They're all superb writers and plenty of them very much so rank in current greatest living authors.

    I forgot to mention our poets, Yeats, Boland, Kavanagh and Heaney. So ya that's a pretty extensive list of literary Irish talent that the globe is very much so aware of. If you like to read anyway and I'm not talking about basic popular fiction .



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    The Arts Festival (with Macnas and the Druid are very important to) is of huge benefit to Galway, it brings in huge tourist numbers and massive amounts of money every year. This philistine attitude of the arts just being scroungers looking for handouts is total nonsense. Live music, theatre, etc. generate a lot of revenue and are important for tourism. Just because you dislike something doesn't mean there aren't loads of people that do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    …..



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    In most English speaking countries I'd say they would (for writers anyway)



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    just for the laugh, i found a list of the 100 best novels in the english language (which will be completely subjective, of course, but interesting to look at the numbers).

    six of the authors listed are irish (swift, joyce, beckett, wilde, o'brien, and mcgahern). given that the pool of authors comes from the UK, ireland, the states, etc., that's a decent showing. we constitute maybe 1 to 2% of the english speaking world, so a 6% showing in a list like that is unlikely to be matched by any other country.

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/aug/17/the-100-best-novels-written-in-english-the-full-list



  • Registered Users Posts: 368 ✭✭MeisterG


    Not that I have skin in this fight particularly but Scotland must be comparable - Conan Doyle, Louis Stevension,Scott, Burns



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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,511 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Not to be offensive, but no. No harm to Conan Doyle or RL Stevenson or even Robbie Burns, but no court in world literature is going to put them on a par, in terms of their importance to literary history, with the likes of Yeats, Beckett or Joyce.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭walkonby


    Scotland punches above its weight in intellectual history (Smith, Hume, Nesbitt) so its version should be a weekly basic income for thinkers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,498 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    A type not rated highly, in this country, sadly. Patrick Hederman, Glenstal Abbey, being my nomination for that art.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,246 ✭✭✭Jack Daw


    Conan Doyle and Stevenson are still being widely read today by the masses and will continue to be widely read by the masses probably for centuries.

    I think popular fiction that lasts through the centuries is probably the most important form of literature precisely because it appeals to the masses as more people are impacted by it.Joyce and Beckett may be more stylistic important , more studied , have more critical acclaim etc but honestly how many people actually read their works, whereas everybody in the world knows Treasure Island and Sherlock Holmes.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,621 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    People know Sherlock Holmes - how many have read any of the books though?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,527 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    hope this program spreads to other areas in our society, it just makes sense, it directly helps those that need it, and the businesses that ultimately receive it, hence helps towards job creation, and then of course the circulation of money via taxation, i.e. everyone wins…..



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,345 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ironically Galway's literal place on the map is what put it on the map. It has little competition as a major investment hub or education centre and it being on the West coast and being "the gateway to Connemara" has made it the spot every Yank wants to pretend he his from. Even before that it was a tourist destination and that more than anything put Galway on the map. It's massively overrated as a centre for the arts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Yet look at the crowds the film fleadh, Galway arts festival, Babaro etc bring in.

    It completely punches above it's weight when it comes to the arts (with the likes of Macnas and Druid) when you look at the level of funding Galway receives. As I've said before, Galway doesn't even have a dedicated rehearsal room.



  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭Mick ah


    I assume you're joking,

    Robbing Peter to pay Paul isn't how you create jobs.

    Leaving money in tax payers pockets allows tax payers to spend more of their money on things they want.

    The Irish state is a monster that has created enough voting constituencies with tax payers money to ensure that the monster will only get bigger and bigger. All at the expense of people who actually generate revenue, jobs and income for society.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,204 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    There's many papers that back up the argument. People spend more if they have a regular income, this increasing the VAT receipts. All income earned above the basic income is taxable as well.



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