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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I agree. I suspect Razzmatazz will quietly shuffle his deck. No harm in given Casey/Bealham/Ahern the reins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Murray and Healy should not be included on the tour. I would look at Loughman and Casey. I'd go as far as to start both of them in one of the tests.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,515 ✭✭✭Downlinz


    POM is still a huge leadership presence for Munster, he's still the guy everyone looks to for on field decisions and is apparently still the most vocal voice behind the scenes. His performances this season have been more understated but I never felt as if he was playing poorly, certainly for Munster I wouldn't dream of playing a knockout game with Ahern ahead of him who's still learning at this level.

    We have to move on from POM at some stage but think he'd leave a big leadership void at present. The hope was probably for Doris to advance his claim as a leader and captain but that aspect seemed to be heavily criticised by BOD this week so it would appear he's not yet ready.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭50HX




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    This stuff is just entirely in your head. It has already been highlighted that Ireland capped more new players in the last RWC cycle than SA but then the goalposts instantly shifted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,959 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Not sure that proves anything on its own timoney gettin motm vs fiji and then getting thrown down a well looks great but aint it



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Last time we played Fiji, three players made their debuts, JOB and Deegan got their second caps, Timoney got his third, even Baloucoune got a start and there were plenty more fringe guys involved

    Nothing breeds resentment like success



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,959 ✭✭✭nerd69




  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Does anyone have a list of the current first choice 23 (or some permutation of it) and the teams they made their debuts against?

    I'm wondering did many come through gradually against the US, Fiji, Samoa or moreso 6N games and summer tours.

    Edit: might as not be lazy and do it myself.

    Porter - USA

    Sheehan - Japan

    Furlong - Wales (WC warm up)

    Beirne - Australia summer tour

    Ryan - USA / McCarthy Australia AI

    POM - Italy 6N

    VDF - England 6N

    Doris - Scotland 6N

    JGP - Italy 6N

    Crowley - Fiji

    Lowe - Wales COVID Cup

    Aki - South Africa AI

    Ringrose - Canada / Henshaw - USA

    Hansen - Wales 6N

    Keenan - Italy 6N

    Post edited by pickarooney on


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,209 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No, it can be dislike or Hate or Despise.

    Group think or be accused of hating the national coach and team. Sad really.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    ..



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,551 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    List of internationals, with their debuts is here if someone fancied putting it together:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ireland_national_rugby_union_players

    EDIT: just threw the 15 together, I think it's right:

    Player

    Debut

    Tournament

    1

    Porter

    USA

    Summer

    2

    Sheehan

    Japan

    AI

    3

    Furlong

    Wales

    RWC Warm-UP

    4

    McCarthy

    Australia

    AI

    5

    Beirne

    Australia

    Summer

    6

    POM

    Italy

    6N

    7

    VDF

    England

    6N

    8

    Doris

    Scotland

    6N

    9

    JGP

    Italy

    ANC

    10

    Crowley

    Fiji

    AI

    11

    Lowe

    Wales

    ANC

    12

    Aki

    South Africa

    AI

    13

    Henshaw

    USA

    Summer

    14

    Hansen

    Wales

    6N

    15

    Keenan

    Italy

    ANC



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,209 ✭✭✭✭phog


    This post, before the edit reminded me of PJ Mara's “Uno duce, una voce”

    Mod: warned

    Post edited by Podge_irl on


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    MOD: I have no idea what on earth this is, but cut it out.

    There is an awful lot of childish nonsense going on here lately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    Is there any indication where Ireland will tour in summer 2025 during the Lions tour? Some Tests against Argentina, Fiji or Japan would would be a good challenge for an Irish side probably missing nearly all of their first XV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Yeah those would make for a good challenge. You could do a tour of the islands and play Samoa, Tonga and Fiji.

    If they go to Argentina I'd like to see someone like Chile or Uruguay get a game too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Jimmy O'Brien has returned at just the right time for Ireland. He's one of Leinster's best performers in recent weeks and the ideal replacement for Keenan. He's probably faster than the latter as well so that gives a boost to our backline which isn't the quickest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    He’s looked electric since coming back. I don’t recall him being that fast before his injury. Always had him in the footballer mould aka Hansen with decent pace but great to see he’s able to hammer the gas down.


    Great opportunity for him to put his hand up for the 15 jersey with Keenan out of the tour and Hansen looking like he’s struggling to get back to 100%. No need to rush him back for a 2 game summer tour although I’m sure he’ll want to get back playing so the season isn’t a complete write off for him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    JOB seems to have gotten faster. He's gassing defenders on the outside which we don't always see from Irish back three players.

    Keenan is the best full back in the world. He's at least an 8/10 in every attribute you want from a 15. In terms of replacements, I think JOB is about the closest we can get to replicating what Keenan brings. Solid passing and kicking game, decent in the air and has speed to take on defenders. We'll lose a bit in line running ability and in defensive reads, but those are what sets Keenan apart from every other 15 in the world.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some downright stupid comments from Damian de Allende to Rugbypass about SA's rivalry with Ireland. I dunno if they're doing this stuff to pump up the summer tour series, or what it is, but find some of his comments bizarre.

    Talks about how Andy Farrell is English, so doesn't understand Irish history, and that impacts his ability to connect with the players.

    He must have lived under a rock in his time in Ireland, because he also says he thinks Irish people aren't emotional and that impacts them in big moments.

    He dramatically overplays the "hardship" angle the SA squad supposedly have too - unquestionably a couple of guys like Makazole Mapimpi the prime example came from nothing and are incredibly admirable, but huge swathes of them are Boer farmers who grew up with anyone's definition of privilege.

    It's clear the media reaction after we beat them comfortably in 2017 still rankles them to a huge degree, and he obviously does have respect for some of the Irish players and aspects of our play, but some of his comments just show him to be incredibly uninformed IMO.

    Jim Hamilton talks a lot of hypocritical shite too - constantly highlighting guys like James Lowe etc as not being Irish. He's an Englishman who played for Scotland, a team stuffed to the brim with imports.

    The gushing praise in general for the Saffers and what they've achieved completely loses sight of how incredibly fortunate they've been along that journey:

    In 2019, they lost their only meaningful pool game against NZ. They emerged from a group containing Italy, Namibia and Canada. Their path then to win the RWC saw them get past Japan, Wales (barely) and a spent English team.

    In 2023 they lost their only meaningful pool game against us, and then robbed France in the QF with the benefit of an egregiously wrong late penalty (Kwagga Smith's midfield turnover), limped past a poor England side in the semis and then limped over the line 12-11 in the final against a NZ team who played 3/4 of the game with 14 men or less.

    Obviously finals and tournaments are for winning, and history just remembers the victors, but the 2015 All Blacks they very much ain't.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They're also fairly consistently underwhelming outside of those two tournaments. They threw a mad hissy fit about the World Rugby team of the year having so few saffers.

    I absolutely can't stand them as a team. This faux outrage bullshit clearly works for them to some degree but it makes them look like children.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, I think exactly the same, by far and away my most disliked team in world rugby (apart from England). Always had a soft spot growing up for the All Blacks, and always felt the exact opposite about the South Africans.

    The game he mentions, from 2017, where we beat them 38-3 in the Aviva, and he says he felt disrespected by the Irish media afterwards for example, was an absolute and utter humiliation for them. It basically got Alister Coetzee sacked, and while they had some rotation that day, they still had a lot of quality on the field too including De Allende, Malcolm Marx, Tendai Mtawarira, Eben Etzebeth, Lood de Jager, Siya Kolisi, PSDT, Bongi, Kitshoff, Pollard, Mostert etc.

    Slating that team for getting hammered like that is absolutely fair game, and I imagine they took enormous grief from their own press for the exact same performance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Seems to be obvious that SA are fearful of Ireland and want to play it out in the media before we get to the games.

    Rassie was up to all sorts before and during the Lions and we seem to be getting the same now, losing the series at home is something SA don't want so expect a lot of this sh*t to come out over the next few weeks

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    "He must have lived under a rock in his time in Ireland, because he also says he thinks Irish people aren't emotional and that impacts them in big moments."

    'Posh robots' as the Molecast described them.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    It's standard fare from South Africa at this stage. Erasmus whips his players up to a frenzy and he generally gets the desired response on the pitch.

    I prefer that the players are leading the media approach and only targeting the Irish media/player attitude in Etzebeth's case.

    Erasmus attacking referees through the media a few years ago remains a low point in rugby's recent history. Wayne Barnes received death threats from South African fans after Erasmus lashed out at him. He really should have resulted in a much longer ban.

    Post edited by Clegg on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Shehal


    F**k me we live so deep in South Africa's head at this point its not even funny 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,606 ✭✭✭Shehal


    It does have to be said back in 2017 that SA sides wasnt THAT great. It looks amazing now ofcourse but it does need to be remembered alot of the players in that side didnt reach the levels we think of them now until Erasmus took over. I remember back then at the time I honestly would have only taken Marx & Etzebeth in an Irish XV and at that time it wasnt even a wild statement to make when you consider how SA had been playing, obviously ask that same question 2 years later and you'd get a very different response if I picked a combined side.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,090 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    The SA side in 2017 really was rubbish and deserves all the criticism that was levelled at them. They lost 57-0 to New Zealand two months prior Ireland thrashing them 38-3.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,804 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    I'd say this for the SA players though - There is generally no BS with them on the field. They seem like straight up great competitors.

    I also cant stand seeing them win, but only for one reason. Erasmus.

    I don't recall any of the Springbok players talking nonsense about Ireland before.



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