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This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭User1998


    I have access to the same platforms they use and depending on the car your looking at buying there really isn’t that much savings to be had in the UK against buying privately here. With all the VAT and customs and transport and fees etc that have to be paid you’d be better off just finding a private seller here who is willing to sell their car under market value



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    The latter is much easier than some people think it is. People in the know who do this regularly like yourself and myself will confirm. BTW I bought that 8 bar Leaf mentioned by @Buffman a few posts up. And the discount I got was a tad more than the 20% some people on here didn't believe I could get 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Would a 2015 leaf be suitable for a newly qualified driver. I know nothing about EVs but the leaf seems good value as a starter car, is there anything I should be wary of? and will a charger be expensive?



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    For sure, Leafs are generally in a very low risk insurance category. But always check insurance before you buy a car. There is still a €300 subsidy for installing a home charger. Or you could just use a granny cable that plugs into any 3 pin household socket.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Leaf24 will be fine on a 3 pin socket. It's likely degraded to the point where it will charge in 6-7 hours on a 3 pin!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭eamonnq


    I would have thought that it would depend on the range available on the car and whether that would suit the person considering buying it. Would be tempted to pick up a cheapish leaf to be used as a second car, but would still need to install a home charger for it so am not sure that I would go to that trouble.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    As myself and @ELM327 said, you don't necessarily need a home charge point. Charging on the granny cable is fine too. Plenty of people do this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Thanks for the help everybody,I am going to look at one tonight.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    To back this up, I’ve been charging an 80 kWh EV and a 10 kWh PHEV solely on one 3 pin plug for the last 10 days or so since my Zappi committed suicide!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,828 ✭✭✭Alkers


    But to counter it, before our ampera was eligible for the charger grant, we charged it off an external socket which we had specifically added to the outside of the house for charging the car. This was wired to later be upgraded to a charge point. The socket itself ended up shorting out and needed to be replaced, it was completely charred and damaged but luckily didn't actually catch fire.

    Most sockets are not suitable for running a 2kW load continuously for 4+ hours so you do need to be a bit aware of things.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Poor install so. A properly installed outdoor 16A rated waterproof socket on its own RCBO in your consumer unit, with properly sized cabling can run a granny charger (typically no more than 2.4kW or about 10A) continuously without a bother

    My zappi was also out of order for a long time and I charged 2 EVs from the one granny charger on alternate nights and mine actually somehow drew about 4kW (well over the 16A rating)



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Bad or old wiring.
    I ran a Leaf for 12 months charging using the granny cable daily using the same socket. No damage or scorch marks whatsoever after that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    That's loadsa hassel though no one wants to do that for any length of time in reality.

    Do able , but gets old.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,389 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ive been charging a leaf 24 on the granny charger for 8 months now with zero issues. It was used as our only family car for 6 of those months, now we have a backup ICE for summer and weekend use



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    In my case the hassle was about the same as having a tethered charge point. I left the granny connected to the outside waterproof socket and just had to connect the car end into the car whenever I wanted to charge

    The only hassle was that because I only have a 3 hours slot of cheap night rate, that I could only get about 12kWh into the cars per night instead of over 20kWh. Which was ok at the time because our mileage was low because of a busy working from home period. But normally that would not have been enough

    But yeah of course if you have to connect a granny cable (maybe even with an extension lead) through your house window or letterbox every day and tidy it all up again in the morning after charging, that would be a lot of hassle. Maybe that is what you are thinking about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    it’s not necessarily the wiring or installer competence, it’s the quality of the socket internally.

    If there is a bad contact it will get worse over time each time you plug in/out. It’s asking for trouble if it’s your long term solution. I used one myself for months but it shouldn’t be recommended for long term use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    All true. An EVSE is preferable. But if it is installed properly, on an outside wall, there will be no bad contact or any safety issues. I would not expect them to be as efficient as an EVSE though and there is less control too compared to a smart EVSE



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    When I did it for a year+ for my first leaf that was my daily at the time for 60k km / yr(and now every time I charge my leaf24 too), I simply left the granny cable plugged in at the socket end and plugged or uplugged the car end only.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,993 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Bad Contact = Bad wiring /install.
    Obviously don’t use a plastic socket from Pepco. Use a decent branded, CE marked (DoP) Socket.

    Speed alone would make you want an EVSE but nothing wrong with granny if it works for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Bad Contact = Bad wiring /install


    But if it is installed properly, on an outside wall, there will be no bad contact or any safety issues.


    that’s not true.

    An electrician doesn’t wire the internal contacts. He will connect the cables but that’s not necessarily where the arcing will occur. It’s where the plug meets the internal parts of the socket. It’s two metal surfaces sliding against each other, it wears. If it’s poor quality to begin with then the risk is higher


    you guys are basically saying “it works for me so it works for everyone”. That’s not how safety works!

    There are enough pics of burned sockets from EV charging to know it’s not a zero risk problem.

    I didn’t have an issue myself but I had an issue with a bouncy castle on my socket. Probably because the castle plug was worn and didn’t have a tight contact.


    if using granny cable long term you need to be monitoring it for heat regularly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    @KCross - "An electrician doesn’t wire the internal contacts."

    Yes they do if they installed a dedicated outdoors waterproof socket with its own RCBO as I mentioned before. As I said, if the job is done properly, you can connect a granny cable to that, powering cars 24/7 without issue. Although the granny cable itself might not be up to that job.

    An indoor socket, installed lord knows when decades ago with dodgy cabling only suited for connecting a few lamps to - yeah then you have a point and a granny cable really shouldn't be used except in an emergency when you are around to supervise it



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I don't think you got his point.. a socket has moving parts in them this is manufacturer thing from the earth that opens the safety covers to the moving contacts on the live and neutral they are constantly used if charging all the time

    This is not the same as say a 16amp outdoor socket which just has pins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,895 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm not sure if these are classed as bargains by most, but I certainly like the price point of these used smart EVs.

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2021-smart-forfour-eq-top-spec-pulse-premium/36932894



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    That's a lot cheaper than I've seen one in Ireland before.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,114 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    you haven’t read what i said. The socket quality and wear over time is just as important.

    it works until it doesn’t!

    you can connect a granny cable to that, powering cars 24/7 without issue. 

    sure the people who have explained that they had issues only a few posts back are liars so. It works for you and that means it’s good for everyone and just blame the sparky after that! It’ll be grand!🙈



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,892 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,367 ✭✭✭User1998


    I know its still a Smart car but the fact it has 4 doors and 4 seats makes it a very usable city car. Definitely better suited for somewhere like London, Paris, or Rome etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    You haven't read what I said. I only referred to properly installed dedicated outdoor sockets on their own RCBO. Non of the people who mentioned problems said they used one of those.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 65,313 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    I'm no electrician, but I've never seen any moving parts when I opened up a socket or installed one. Care to enlighten me what parts move?



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