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No conviction for west Cork landlord who took away tenants car, dug a big hole and buried it.

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    #92
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    411:



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    #93
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    He had me pay rent to an account in the UK. In June I texted him letting him know I’d be leaving for the summer and my daughter who lives in London would deposit July and August before she left in early July (rent was due on the 9th) and I’d take care of Sep on my return. We were in contact throughout the summer as I was refurbishing an Airbnb and he’s a contractor. Not once did he mention rent not being paid and just kept asking for a Carrhart jacket. Sept 6th he texted saying he’d not received rent and on the 7th that he was moving back in. I saw the WhatsApp on Friday the 9th and immediately replied, apologize and explained what had happened and paid rent Monday, including September since I was delaying my return by a few weeks.


    Also, there was no damage. The previous year while I was away my daughter went to Cork for the night and her friend was to take the dogs out for her, but hurt her back, took a pain med and fell sleep, unbeknown to my daughter. I couldn’t get a hold of her and because I was worried, I asked Collin to go and check on her at the house. He then found the dogs alone and pee and poop in the the house. My daughter promptly came home, cleaned up, apologized, explained and sent him tpictures of everything being spotless again and that was the end of that. Those pictures he took of the pee in the poop is what he shows everyone. He was constantly in and around the house daily as he put his trash in my bin and had his work trailer on the field next to the house.



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    #94
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    So if I park up an leave a car on your property you've no right to get rid of it? Seems odd but the law can be strange at times.


    For four years, I parked the cars in the driveway at the back of the house I was renting and living in. He refused to give me the keys or access after he illegally moved in. What do you suggest I should’ve done?



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    #95
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199720#Comment_122199720

    You're not really renting unless you pay the rent but besides that have you tried taking your case to court and letting a Judge decide?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #96
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    So she went to the states and asked her daughter to pay the rent whilst she was away. The daughter forgot.

    Do they not have the Internet in the states? Has she heard of online banking, a direct debit or standing order?

    The case went to the RTB, and they continued with the case despite the landlord not being available to attend the hearing. Then a judge looked at the case and dismissed the charges. The story doesn't add up.



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    #97
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    You're not really renting unless you pay the rent but besides that have you tried taking your case to court and letting a Judge decide?

    He had me pay rent to an account in the UK. In June I texted him letting him know I’d be leaving for the summer and my daughter who lives in London would deposit July and August before she left in early July (rent was due on the 9th) and I’d take care of Sep on my return. We were in contact throughout the summer as I was refurbishing an Airbnb and he’s a contractor. Not once did he mention rent not being paid and just kept asking for a Carrhart jacket. Sept 6th he texted saying he’d not received rent and on the 7th that he was moving back in. I saw the WhatsApp on Friday the 9th and immediately replied, apologize and explained what had happened and paid rent Monday, including September since I was delaying my return by a few weeks.

    And the only court I could go to is the RTB. I did 3x and due to the preponderance of evidence I presented I was awarded the sun I was.



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    #98
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Does the taxman know about his UK bank account?



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    #99
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200034#Comment_122200034

    Yes, I was advised to report it, otherwise, I’d get in trouble. And his solicitor complained to the adjudicator during the 2nd RTB that I had caused him stress because I had reported him to revenue.



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    #100
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197440#Comment_122197440

    One thing we know for sure about this saga is 2 Judges have looked at it and 2 Judges have been more than sympathetic to the Land Lord in question. They would be in charge of infinitely more facts than

    Not 2 judges same judge.



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    #101
    RoboRat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198008#Comment_122198008

    Works both ways. Yes, how the house purchase was financed has no bearing on the tenant... how she funds and pays the rent isn't his problem either, as long as its paid on time.

    There is an agreement and as part of that agreement, the tenant agreed to pay rent at specified intervals or specified dates. In this day and age, there are many options to pay... if she was going away and it appears to be a scheduled holiday, then pay it up front. If she didn't have the money to pay it up front, set up a direct debit or transfer it using online banking. It was up to her to ensure the rent was paid in a timely manner. Everything doesn't fall back on the landlord.

    The landlord was wrong to do what he did, but there are 2 parties at fault. We only seem to be hearing one side of the story.



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    #102
    puchica
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭puchica


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198102#Comment_122198102

    The judge refused to enforce the order because both the adjudication and tribunal were done remotely via zoom and he didn’t have a solicitor present. He was being represented but choose not to have his solicitor with him in both hearings, as did she. The judge didn’t think it was fair and refused to endorse the order which is now under appeal. All RTB hearings are remotely and being represented is not mandatory.



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    #103
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198738#Comment_122198738

    Again the guards investigated it.

    I don't know about you, but if I commit arson, that's the car I am burying.

    Again there was absolutely no reason for him to confess to burying the van.



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    #104
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199834#Comment_122199834

    Online banking is likely how the rent was paid.

    The landlord would need to operate a direct debit scheme. There's no chance of that happening.

    The landlord required rent to be paid to a foreign bank account. Many banks don't allow standing orders to foreign bank accounts, but will allow one off payments. While being away in the States, it seems like a sensible solution to have the daughter pay the rent as she was living in the same country as the landlord's bank account.



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    #105
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200277#Comment_122200277

    I completely agree - we are only hearing one side of the story. I suspect there is alot more to this story than whats being reported. You would have to be pushed very hard and at the end of your tether to go to the trouble of burying a car.

    No doubt both sides have behaved badly but I would love to hear what the landlord has to say.



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    #106
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200122#Comment_122200122

    So she had him arrested over a rotted van and reported him to revenue, whilst he was battling aggressive cancer?

    She seems lovely.



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    #107
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200277#Comment_122200277

    Isnt it funny that a wrong date by a day on a notice to quit can invalidate the whole thing and cost someone years, but not paying your rent is acceptable.



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    #108
    Patrick2010
    Registered Users Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200569#Comment_122200569

    He took all her belongings and destroyed both her vehicles and evicted her for a mix up of two months rent after her husband of 30 years died, he sounds lovely.



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    #109
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200579#Comment_122200579

    It's ridiculous the way the laws are structured to discourage small landlords from staying in or investing in the market. There is no empathy or understanding from the powers that be for small landlords because they simply want them out of the equation and have been slowly but surely working towards that goal for decades.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #110
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    The posts justifying the landlord's behaviour are bizarre...



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    #111
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200616#Comment_122200616

    Well no, her husband died years before. Didn't stop her using the tragedy to squeeze a few extra quid out of the van she left to rot.

    She didn't get the conviction she wanted but again we have to be thankful for Judges who are furnished with a lot more facts than we are and can determine fairness whilst balancing it out with justice.

    I assume she is American, which would be quite differently culturally, in Ireland, particularly rural Ireland just because you can put your foot on someone's throat doesn't mean you have to.



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    #112
    Deeec
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Deeec


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200616#Comment_122200616

    I feel there is alot more to this story. We havent heard the landlords side at all where the tenant has been very vocal.

    I would be really annoyed if a tenant dumped or abandoned old cars at my property. It shows a huge disrespect IMO. Also people who do this tend to be very careless so Im guessing that possibly the house may not have been kept in great condition by the tenant even though she seems to believe herself to be a model tenant.

    I cant see how this lady didnt check with her daughter that the rent was paid. The daughter not paying sounds like an excuse to me.

    I dont believe any landlord would have done this in the circumstances the tenant describes so there is more to this story.



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    #113
    TinyMuffin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    remains of a car found.

    IMG_0601.jpeg




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    #114
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 16,197 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197822#Comment_122197822

    What's the shouting about? Calm down.

    If I was the judge, I'd make him dig the car up again and dispose of it properly on environmental grounds.



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    #115
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 16,197 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200643#Comment_122200643

    Play spot the landlord, it's fun.



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    #116
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200719#Comment_122200719

    And if my aunt had balls….

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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    #117
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200541#Comment_122200541

    There was absolutely no reason to bury the van full stop - it, like the illegal eviction and keeping tenants possessions as a bargaining chip are the behaviour of someone deeply unhinged.

    If rent is unpaid first thing to do is notify tenant of the situation as soon as you realise it's been unpaid (not wait 3 months to say anything), then 2nd thing to do is initiate eviction proceedings if you want them out.

    You do not sneak into the house while they are away and change locks, take their van and bury it and keep all their belongings from them. It is total rogue behaviour and the fact that you can condone this speaks volumes about your character.



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    #118
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200890#Comment_122200890

    Where did I condone it?

    I explained to you the guards investigated the burnt fiat, no charges arose. It's not very hard to determine that a vehicle has been burnt out.

    I then explained to you if I committed arson, I would bury the evidence.

    Given the fact he freely admitted to burying the van when he didn't have to, I would side with guards that he didn't burn the fiat.

    Vehicles that are left to rot, it wouldn't be unheard of them to go on fire once the battery is charged, wiring looms, etc do degrade when not looked after.

    She was chastised by the Judge in this case for letting her vehicles rot.

    Now the RTB determined he burned the car, but their determination is not based on facts or even evidence.

    For instance they expected him to prove a negative.

    The Appellant Landlord did not return the security deposit at the end of the tenancy. At the
    appeal hearing the Appellant Landlord disputed that any deposit was paid at the
    commencement of the tenancy. No evidence was provided to substantiate this claim. The
    Respondent Tenants always maintained that a deposit of €1,000.00 was paid.

    🤷‍♀️



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    #119
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Where did it say the van was rotted? Just wondering as it keeps coming up but the person who owned had asked for the keys so she could remove it, which implies it was still in operating order.



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    #120
    Boggles
    Registered Users Posts: 40,006 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201016#Comment_122201016

    He couldn't even tow the van it was so seized, that's why he had to pick it up.

    So your options there are to pay someone with an adequately sized loader to pick it up and take it away and then pay to have it disposed of.

    For her to simply drive it away, she would have had to A. fix it. B. Insure, Tax and Test it. Potentially 1000s.

    The Judge in the case stated the van had no monetary value, it actually had a negative monetary value as you probably looking at a fair chunk to have it disposed of. She was awarded a 1000 euro for sentimental value, which is a load of horséshít.

    Like she going to pay to have it moved to her new holiday home and be allowed let it rot out of the front of that.

    The reality is she has done more than alright out of it, the van is gone and she has been awarded 2 and a half grand (potentially) for something that would have cost her a fair heap to get rid of.

    Getting him arrested and charged over it was just pure malice.



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    #121
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201061#Comment_122201061

    What I asked was where are people seeing it was rotted, it wasn't in the articles I read. Not saying it was or it wasn't, just I haven't seen it written anywhere. I could easily have missed it though, as I seemed ot have gotten a lot more detail than others here by reading a few different publications, I may also have missed some as well. As for the Fiat 500, if its the new model, then it is unlikely to be rotted, if its a classic one, you would get someone to take it for nothing, even if rotted.



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