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Directly Elected Mayor

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    #392
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭pigtown


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197546#Comment_122197546

    I actually think that could be a good thing for the role. If the mayor is getting loads of flak about something that they have no control over then who better to campaign for additional powers than the person who gains politically from receiving them



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    #393
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197827#Comment_122197827

    Worrying about what the mayor might be able to do in the future is a waste of time.

    The mayor is never going to be fixing national policy like UHL and can only "bring it up" same as any TD currently can.



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    #394
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197844#Comment_122197844

    As it is most people don't understand the roles of the councillors. I remember being out on canvas in 2009 (Ind Candidate), when a taxi driver asked me what they were going to do about the changing taxi regulations at the time. I calmly and clearly explained that those changes were national policy and that local councillors didn't have the power to affect changes to the policy (especially an independent councillor) and got roared and shouted at for not telling him what he expected to hear.

    Most peoples misconception of local council powers hasn't changed 15 years later, so it'll be no surprise at all that they'll overestimate what the Mayor can do.



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    #395
    Pman
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Pman


    It looks to me from studying the literature that the emperor has no clothes. As he /she will be doing nothing and responsible for nothing and paid 150,000 euros and expenses for doing it, I'll be voting for the person that could do with 150,000 per year. Some of the candidates have a few kids in tow . I'll prequalify on that basis. 150,000 over 5 years = 750,000 nice. plus a car and a driver.



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    #396
    Pman
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Pman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197897#Comment_122197897

    I actually remember an independent candidate that had green leanings in 2009. He wanted to put a bus lane on the Ennis Road and O Connell Avenue. I dont think he was elected in the end. called to the house , seemed genuine but too genuine for politics.



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    #397
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    You are desperately trying to push a particular agenda which to be honest is pointless as this stage. The mayor is happening and it is happening under a certain structure with certain powers.

    "Too many politicians doing no work and making too much money" is a bit of a broken record.



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    #398
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Drove past a bus stop a while ago and saw a massive poster of Leddin with the slogan 'for a rail link to Shannon'.

    I mean the Mayor wont have any powers over national infrastructure. Or County Clare! It's complete and utter BS and downright lying to even claim that he could deliver that.



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    #399
    Pman
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Pman


    Nobody said county councillors are well paid or do no work ; but there's no need to go off and pay a Mayor 150,000 per year who will only be swaning around looking good and rightly so. For far too long we've had the first citizen ( first customer) hardly able to put on the chain correctly or even handle it like it should be handled. I don't expect or even want him/her to be cleaning the streets or reading going through Excel sheets of finances or arguing the finer points procurement policy etc. DS would have made a fine Mayor. Tall Intelligent, stately, articulate and could really wear a chain, surprised he didn't go for it. He has also written a fantastic book set Limerick in 1690. Whats on offer could hardly write an a few lineens about Limericks history even if you paid them to.



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    #400
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Did you even open the booklet pdf? I mean if you did you'd know that the Mayor is taking most executive powers from the county Chief Executive and will have €40m to spend on projects over the 5 year term.

    The position has no resemblance to the old Mayor role.

    And I want someone with that responsibility to be properly paid.



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    #401
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199523#Comment_122199523

    Not Diarmuid Scully...?



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    #402
    Pman
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Pman


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199592#Comment_122199592

    With all due respect Cookiemunster, I did read it. I basically scoured it and find no tangible valuable difference between current and new Mayor system. He/she still needs the councillors to back them for every single thing. Nothing mentioned about planning in that pdf, so obviously nothing changes there. There's no difference, The Mayor has no clothes. Its still the same Mayor except he/she is elected by the people for 5 years. Sure, he'll /she be invited to Dublin but they wont listen unless he/she is with the ruling party. He/She will get a hard time from Councillors 24/7 . on reflection I suppose thats why its 150,000 . He/she'll be a buffer for all the problems in Limerick from all sides. ( housing, opera , hospital and wont be able to do a solitary thing about any of them) God help whoever gets it. He/ she will probably pepper the place with more statues, thats all. little princes of this and that

    Moreover, it gives no indication about how the Mayor can be removed ( like in the UK ) . Maybe it's anticipated that it wont happen as he /she will be quiet like mouse and harmless.

    150,000 and 5 council staff. Previously 50,000 and one staff. Limerick loves burning money. theres something in the air, whether internal or externally manifested. corruption and waste.

    Limerick Main Drainage ( it was supposed to cost 10 million but cost 100 million through courts because they double crossed a well meaning contractor) Limerick Southern Ring Road and Tunnel albeit NRA managed PPP for which Limerick users will be paying until 2060 and still the Govern have to pay 8 million a year because it doesnt get the traffic.

    Peoples Park, City of Cultures, Limerick Refrigeration ( left alot of people without a house over heads , 1300 houses demolished and 300 built) , O Connell Street, Opera House, Coonagh Moyross road, Limerick conspirator road etc etc.

    Finally what could he possibly spend a discretionary budget on, without the approval of 20 councillors. Community festivals could be good ?

    I'm finished. Goodbye and God Bless. I hope it works out for you all. Limerick is a lady Ive always loved.



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    #403
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Limerick didn't just decide to have a DEM. The Government gave us the option and then when we voted on it they decided on the salary and powers.

    What on Earth has any of the above got to do with the DEM?

    What money has been wasted on the Peoples Park?

    Limerick Refrigeration??? Brrrrr its cold. Regeneration was again a Government funded scheme that had its budget slashed by said Government.

    O'Connell St implementation was a disaster, but it didn't actually cost and more than it was supposed to.

    Road Bridge going bust half way through building the Coonagh to Knockalisheen Road has nothing to do with the Council.

    Limerick Conspirator Road? I assume you mean Northern Distributer Road. That's stopped because of Eamonn Ryan, not the Council and it's a Clare Co. Co. project anyway as it's mainly in Clare.

    You admit yourself that the tunnel is a national project, so again, nothing to do with the Council. Also the PPP finishes in 2041, not in 2060 and the Annacotty to Rathbane section has nothing at all to do with the PPP.

    Finally, the Mayor can be removed from office.

    Sections 51 to 60 contain provisions for a legal mechanism to remove a directly elected mayor. First, the council may adopt a proposal to remove the mayor from office, but only on the grounds of misbehaviour or failure to perform
    functions. This must be signed by at least two thirds of the total number of members and specify the grounds and reasons. To ensure that due consideration is given before initiating this process, an unsuccessful attempt cannot be repeated for a minimum of 12 months. In addition, such a process cannot be initiated within a 12-month period of a new mayor taking office. Furthermore, it is appropriate that the removal meeting is held in public. In order to ensure the removal is the democratic will of the elected council, it is required that at least three quarters of the council support the motion for it to be passed. Two thirds of members must sign to bring a motion, and three quarters of members must approve that motion for removal.

    Second, when a removal resolution is passed, the Minister is informed and establishes a three-person independent expert panel to consider the matter. An order for removing the mayor from office may only be made by the Minister if recommended by the panel. If the panel makes a recommendation to remove the mayor, the Minister must consider the matter and decide whether to accept the recommendation. If a Minister decides not to accept the recommendation
    for removal of the mayor, the Minister must give notice to that effect to the mayor and the council. If the Minister accepts the recommendation and decides to make an order to remove the mayor, this order must be placed before the Houses of the Oireachtas and receive a positive resolution from both Houses before it can be signed into effect.



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    #404
    LeoD
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199511#Comment_122199511

    You obviously have no time for the Green Party so will criticise at every possible opportunity but in principle, do you think a rail link between Shannon Airport and Limerick would be a good idea? Nevermind the politics involved to get approval for such infrastructure, if a rail link could be delivered in 5 years would you be for it? Or do you think it's an engineering impossibility also? I also don't understand how you can support candidates saying they want to build a road through Clare but anyone saying they want to see a rail link built in Clare is a liar. Do different rules apply whether it's a road or a rail link?



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    #405
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200842#Comment_122200842

    Difference unwritten rules certainly seem to apply. The state has never built a new train line whereas we have happily ripped through the countryside for roads so as much as I would 100% for a train to Shannon Leddin and a few before him are just using it in the same way "a Luas for xxx" gets thrown around.

    Re-electing Leddin and the rest of the Greens to national government would do way more for these very long term projects than making him mayor.



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    #406
    geotrig
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭geotrig


    yeah that's the thing that has me confused, I would have thought being a Td with potential to be part of gov would be a better position to gain traction for these plans more so than being mayor, I don't particulary like the green party or Leddins policies for the most part but have no problem with either being in government /td or being retained their.



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    #407
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200909#Comment_122200909

    I think he knows that he isn't going to be mayor so is just using the exposure to try put a bit of traction into certain issues.



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    #408
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200842#Comment_122200842

    He's running for election as Mayor of Limerick. As Mayor of Limerick he will not have any powers to get a rail link to Shannon built. Stating that he will get it done if elected is nothing but a lie.

    Outside of the politics side there is not a snowballs chance in hell that a rail link could be physically built within the next decade. It would need to start from scratch. That means a cost benefit analysis (which it is highly unlikely to pass), design, planning, funding and finally building. It's currently taking 10-15 years to get an infrastructure project from concept to construction.

    I have no issue with rail projects that have sound thinking behind them. BusConnects with P&Rs. Double tracking the line to Limerick Junction. The Metro and DART+ projects in Dublin. Electrifying the intercity lines.

    I do have an issue with projects that will obviously be white elephants as they could never compete with the current road options to get people where they want to go. If he wanted to build a new green field rail line going through Castletroy, Raheen and out to Shannon via the city center and then on to Ennis and Galway, I'd be behind the idea as it would be fast and efficient. However designing a public transport system around old 18th century single track alignments that all have to connect in Colbert Station will not get people out of their cars.

    Also there are currently over 40 daily buses each way between Limerick and Shannon with the 343 and 51 services and the number of services are due to be increased.

    Finally it's not one or the other either. The LNDR would facilitate the removal of private vehicle traffic from the city center, more space for buses and further city center pedestrianisation.



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    #409
    LeoD
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200887#Comment_122200887

    I think a DEM with the largest election mandate of any public rep in the country advocating for a rail link would have a lot more influence than a back bench TD tbf. And if that TD is in opposition then it's hard to see how much influence they could have. And when I see John Moran who's main motivation is economic growth looking for the same thing I think it dispels the myth that this is some green fantasy project. It's very easy to knock if you say it'd be quicker to take a bus from Moyross to the city centre but the metro rail plan is not about getting people into the city centre, it's about moving people between the outer areas. If you want to go to the city centre then take a bus, walk, cycle or drive.



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    #410
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭pigtown


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197844#Comment_122197844

    My point was, as it stands the mayor's powers are limited and its unlikely the government will push for additional powers to be devolved. This means that the existing mayor would have to campaign for new powers, likely for the most common issues that are raised with them. In order to be successful they would have to demonstrate that the office is capable of holding these powers.

    So the best way of getting a more powerful mayor is for them to campaign for it themselves



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    #411
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201011#Comment_122201011

    The metro rail plan you describe won't work because all lines lead to Colbert and none lead to Castletroy or Plassey. The only way this would be successful (as I've said above) is to build an entirely new line, not reuse the 18th century alignments.

    The Shannon line isn't a Green fantasy, it's just a fantasy that has been mooted many times before by various local politicians of all flavours.



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    #412
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201011#Comment_122201011

    Him as mayor or him as TD (backbench is a bit harsh) will do nothing to get that train built.

    Him as a TD in a party with enough numbers for a coalition means the party as a whole could influence this project.

    I don't oppose any part of the current rail plan for Limerick or stuff like a link to Shannon. I don't think they are the magic bullet Leddin makes out but I am 100% behind Moyross and the other projects.

    If he really want to be mayor he should talk more about achievable things that need political support like Busconnects and P&R. If he wants my vote anyway.



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    #413
    LeoD
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200998#Comment_122200998

    So a rail system according to you 'around 18th century alignments will not get people out of their cars' but building another road will? Right…



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    #414
    LeoD
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭LeoD


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201089#Comment_122201089

    The current government has only around 6 months left at most so there's no guarantee that Limerick will have a direct line to a transport Minister who wants to see investment in rail around Limerick. And I don't think anyone in favour of rail thinks it's a magic bullet but it provides the foundations for long term sustainable growth. And building one station in Moyross will be of little use or even investing in rail will be of little benefit if we don't create a more comprehensive network and build housing, employment, education, etc facilities around it.



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    #415
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201940#Comment_122201940

    Again there's no need to try sell the rail transport network to me. I'm fully on board with new lines and stations all over the place.

    I just don't think it's something a potential mayor should promise because I don't think they can make it happen.



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    #416
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201912#Comment_122201912

    Not at all what I said. Quite disingenuous of you to totally ignore where I described a rail system that would work. And it's not about getting everyone out of their cars (that's never going to happen), it's about getting more people out of their cars and into PT. The LNDR would take a lot of traffic out of Corbally and the city center allowing better and more frequent buses in those areas. And believe it or not, buses could use it too.

    Again as I said (and you've conveniently ignored), it's not one or the other. New roads and extra PT can go hand in hand. In Limerick BusConnects will more than cover the citys PT needs.

    Do you have no comeback either on why a rail line to Shannon can't be built in the next 5 years?



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    #417
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202008#Comment_122202008

    The second part was what I was initially trying to say too, but some people see things that aren't actually written.

    To say he can get it over the line is highly disingenuous at best and downright lying at worst.



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    #418
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202369#Comment_122202369

    Peter Power was selling the Luas to Shannon years ago. Still waiting for Fianna Fail to build that tram 🤣

    Would be great for Shannon IE workers but I just don't believe anyone trying to sell it.

    Even the Greens who have done some very good things with public transport.



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    #419
    NeutralHandle
    Registered Users Posts: 190 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    There is progress in that direction [of developing light rail] though.

    These sorts of projects just don't happen that quickly. The LUAS was in the works for ages before it was actually built. That's frustrating, but seemingly slow movement is to be expected.

    Leddin 100% sees it as an achievable goal. He is also the best person to succeed in bringing it into being, given his political and professional background [engineering consultation].

    https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastructure/limerick-commuter-rail-station-and-upgrading-studies-commissioned/65781.article



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    #420
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    That's not light rail. That's heavy rail. And as I've said before, every line has to go to Colbert and no line goes to Castletroy or Plassey.

    I'd love an actual tram line linking Castletroy with Raheen via the city center, as that would actually take people where they want to go. But what's proposed is nothing like that.

    A station at Ballysimon is fine if there are shuttle buses into Plassey and Annacotty, but not much use as a park and ride if you don't want to go to the city center.



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    #421
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 26,046 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204969#Comment_122204969

    All of those are already in the works and the key to those projects and this cannot be understated is that they are on existing lines.

    The state does not ever ever build new lines. I think that will change some day but it won't be changed by the mayor of the neighbouring county to the new line.



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