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Own a property but my management agent rented my house without my consent under HAP scheme

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  • 29-05-2024 7:33am
    #1
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Hello everyone,

    I lived in Ireland for almost 18 years and own a end of terrace house 3/1 in Drogheda, Co-Louth. We moved to Australia in 2015 and a very famous property agent in Drogheda taking care of my house since 2017 and I always tried to be very transparent and provide anything my tenants need.

    The first tenants stayed only 6 months and the present tenant is renting since then.

    Yesterday I felt stupid and worthless when I cane to know about the shock that my house in under HAP scheme and I did not signed any papers for this scheme. Receieved a mail from my agent if I have receieved a council inspection letter, I got confused why council is inspecting my property without informing me, I called the Louth city council yesterday and spoke to a amazing lady who was very helpful, I asked he why council wanted to inspect my property and did not even bothered to inform me and she mentioned that they have informed my agent and because my property is under HAP scheme and when I signed up with the council I agreed them to go to the property without informing me.

    I did not even know what HAP stands for until I spoke to the lady in the council and I do not even remember I signed up any documents.

    Can the humble members of board.ie suggest me what can I do in this situation, I am sitting thousands of kilometers away from Ireland and this shocking me and put me in such position where I feel worthless and someone stabbed in my back. I use to treat this agent like my own as I gave her business 4 times when my friends want to buy a property in Drogheda.

    Since I bought this house my mortgage was Euro 1100/m and now it has gone 1659/m due to the increase of interest but I get paid 1532/m for my house as rent and after the house insurance, agent charges I get paid 1330/m in my account, but the rents in drogheda for 2 BR is between 1800-2200/m, since few years I keep asking this agent of mine why can I not get paid the market value she keep saying I can not increase the rent to market value even if I change the tenant because my house falls into the area of rent restriction, now everything falling into place may be im wrong, is it I can get the market value because my house is attached under HAP or is this restriction for everyone who is living in Louth or rent restricted area.

    I beg of you guys to please help me and guide me to whom I shoud approach in this dark road.

    Thank you all

    Kind regards

    Barkath Mo😒🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

    Tagged:


Best Answers

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    #1
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    I think you only really only have two options here. Let the agent work away or sell the house.

    Personally I would never be a landlord in Ireland. I used to know a few landlords a few years ago, but each and every one of them have sold up and not one of them isnt glad they did now. And you being so far away makes it an even harder thing.

    Sell is my opinion.



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    #1
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,727 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    What was the rent you were charging in 2017, add 2% a year, this is the max you could have gotten. Likely as HAP, and it looks like they are well over the limits for Drogheda, even if you increase it, you might not get it. Agent probably making the best choice they can. Also that increase in mortgage rates sounds insane, that is a 50% increase, something not right there.



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    #1
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,155 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Why would you feel worthless because your house is rented to a HAP tenant? Thousands and thousands of houses around the country are rented under the scheme.

    If your rent is being paid regularly at the rate it's set, why does it matter what the source of that rent is?

    And I agree, you really need to inform yourself about renting in Ireland a bit more or you're leaving yourself open to all sorts of potential trouble. Don't rely on agents.



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    #1
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,886 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    If you have a tenant, and something happens in their life which makes them eligible for HAP and they apply, then you have no choice about going on to HAP. For your agents to refuse it could well have been illegal.

    Post edited by Mrs OBumble on


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    #1
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    "my house in under HAP scheme and I did not signed any papers for this scheme"

    • Presumably your agent signed the papers on your behalf. Agents can (in some circumstances) do that.

    "Receieved a mail from my agent if I have receieved a council inspection letter"

    • This is normal for HAP and non-HAP properties.

    "I asked he why council wanted to inspect my property and did not even bothered to inform me."

    • Does the council have your australian address? Do you expect them to write to you in Australia, then wait for a response?

    "and she mentioned that they have informed my agent"

    • Seems fine to me.

    "Can the humble members of board.ie suggest me what can I do in this situation"

    • Allow the council to inspect your property, as they are entitled, and that's about it?

    "….Yesterday I felt stupid and worthless"

    "….the shock"

    "….put me in such position where I feel worthless and someone stabbed in my back."

    "….whom I shoud approach in this dark road."

    • You seem to be over-anxious about this situation.

    "Since I bought this house my mortgage was Euro 1100/m and now it has gone 1659/m due to the increase of interest but I get paid 1532/m for my house as rent and after the house insurance, agent charges I get paid 1330/m in my account"

    • Don't forget about tax!

    "since few years I keep asking this agent of mine why can I not get paid the market value she keep saying I can not increase the rent to market value even if I change the tenant because my house falls into the area of rent restriction"

    • Very succinctly put. That's the law.

    "is it I can get the market value because my house is attached under HAP or is this restriction for everyone who is living in Louth or rent restricted area."

    • It is most of the country. Nothing to do with HAP. Even if you sell the house, the new owner has the same restriction.

    Basically

    1. Let the inspection happen.
    2. Tell your agent to maximise rent increases to get you back to market rent, if you want to.
    3. Pay your tax, if you are not paying it.
    4. Move on with your life.

    Good luck



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    #1
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users Posts: 29,155 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201308#Comment_122201308

    My house, which I bought for absolutely stupid money at the height of the boom in 2006 would still not sell for what I paid for it, 18 years later.



«1

Answers

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    #2
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭SteM


    Whatever about the HAP issue, have you bothered to Google 'is drogheda in a rent pressure zone'? If you don't even know what a RPZ is you have no business being a landlord in Ireland imo because they've been around since 2017 at least.



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    #3
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    A mortgage going from €1,100 to €1,659 per month is absolutely not an interest rate increase.

    For your own reasons you have chosen not to reveal the reason for that increase, but that is the core of your issue, not HAP, not the agent, not the tax, and not RPZ. The issue you have is how you have chosen to manage your loan.



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    #4
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,391 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The restriction on your rent arises because your house is in a rent pressure zone. It would apply regardless of whether your tenant was benefiting from HAP or not.

    It is unlawful for a landlord to discriminate against a tenant because the tenant is in receipt of HAP. If you're offering a house for rent then you must be open to accepting HAP tenants. That would explain why your agent did not seek your permission to accept HAP tenants; you don't have any choice about accepting them.

    I agree with CramCycle that the increase in your mortgage payments looks very steep; you might want to investigate what is happening there, and where there are any steps you could take to get better mortgage terms. But there's no necessary connection between the cost of buying a house on mortgage and the amount you can get by renting it out; it typically costs more to buy an asset than to rent it temporarily, so mortgage payments exceeding rental payments is not an uncommon state of affairs. You're investing by buying a house and the return on that investment mainly comes not in the form of profit from renting it out while you are paying off the mortage, but from the capital value of the house which you own outright at the end of the mortgage term.



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    #5
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,489 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    illegal to refuse HAP. Your agent had no choice.

    Why not just sell the place? The council will buy it.



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    #6
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,844 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Not only did your agent not stab you in the back, but they protected you from some heafty fines because it sounds like you would have discriminated against HAP and tried to breach rent increase limits.

    This is why the professional is managing your property.



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    #7
    A2LUE42
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    Has your agent taken care of the tax implications as a non-resident landlord? There was no mention of that in your post. That would seriously impact the revenue generated by renting the property vs the Mortgage payments.



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    #8
    Liam O
    Registered Users Posts: 19,155 ✭✭✭✭Liam O


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196426#Comment_122196426

    They could have been on a tracker that's gone from 0.75 to 5.25% over the last couple of years which wouldn't be too far off.

    Regardless it's not the tenant's job to give them a free house, they are doing quite well out of it other than a potential atrocious decision not to fix a couple of years back but they don't seem very hands on and potentially got very lucky with the tracker before.



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    #9
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196677#Comment_122196677

    Everyone making here such a fuss and think I am against those who are needy, I dont care if my house is under hap scheme but as a owner I am entitled to know everything before its been under hap, thats all I was looking, most of the people who are replying here think I have something against the HAP or the people who are unfortunate, if so then you are wrong. Those who trying to be an angle here then why dont you all open your doors to the needy? tongue is boneless and its very easy to speak than showing actions, how many who think im evil here did something who needs help? so stop judging, The Ireland I use to know is not that Ireland anymore, even this day I get so emotional whenever I speak or think about that Amazing country but the mentalities changed so much i suppose.



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    #10
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    I agree with you, but thats my first house and I have a unique attachment with that amazing country, I keep bugging my wife for moving back to ireland. I bought that property in 2007 for 305,000 and now the price if that house is 230,000 max. Well really dont know im in a very aucward position. Banks can put up their interest but we as owners can not increase the rent, what kind of law is this.

    Thanks you for your understanding.



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    #11
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122196415#Comment_122196415

    what kind of mentality is this? Im dont feel worthless coz its under HAP but coz I am not been informed about this by the property agent until I called the council for their inspection without informing me. so please dont be so judgemental



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    #12
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200145#Comment_122200145

    you are wrong, Landlords and agents are not legally required to rent to a person
    getting HAP. They can choose any tenant for their property. However,
    they are not allowed to refuse to rent to someone just because they
    receive HAP. I am not against HAP and i clearly mentioned in my post. but they would have informed me,



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    #13
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    I am a citizen of Ireland as I lived there for 18 years and worked as a physio and run my own transport company.



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    #14
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,489 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200362#Comment_122200362

    What are my first 4 words…… many tenants will only mention HAP AFTER they are offered a tenancy , or sometimes o my get approved HAP when in a tenancy



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    #15
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,489 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    It’s 14 years later. You should have less than 230k on your mortgage



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    #16
    tohaltuwi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    Such is OP’s handle on his situation, I’d be concerned, like one or two above, re his status with Revenue. He should be up to speed on Form 11 returns etc if he has operated a transport company as well as being a physiotherapist and a landlord. What gives me doubts? 🤔 He doesn’t mention a tax agent or accountant. It’s crucial to keep up to speed on all things legal when conducting business, and ever more so when residing overseas. Also he is being very over-dramatic in use language than the situation calls for imo.

    Post edited by tohaltuwi on


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    #17
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭micar


    I manage a rental property for my father in Dublin…..split into 3 apartments.

    We've 2 HAP tenants and they are fine.



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    #18
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    but I get paid 1532/m for my house as rent and after the house insurance, agent charges I get paid 1330/m in my account

    There is a double taxation agreement with Australia. Any income in Australia is deemed as income in Ireland and most likely you will need to pay income tax on your rental income as if its been added to your Aus salary. Worst case close to 50% tax.



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    #19
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,891 ✭✭✭micar


    there was a change from July 2023 how Revenue collect tax on rental income for non residents

    the amount you're getting is net of the 20% tax due and the management company fees.



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    #20
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200183#Comment_122200183

    Exactly as I stated, the issue is how he has chosen to manage his loan.



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    #21
    holliehobbie
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭holliehobbie


    How could a house in Ireland be worth nearly €100,000 less after 14 years? House prices are only going one way!



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    #22
    mayordenis
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 9,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭mayordenis


    Likely able to fix the loan now at a fairly decent rate now too, so if the issue is truly getting into garbage rates 18 months ago it should be possible to make a decent dent in that. Rent is paying what 65-70% of your mortgage minimum on an appreciating asset?



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    #23
    MoIrish
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭MoIrish


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200402#Comment_122200402

    Thank you so much for taking so much time to reply me back. No the council does not have my address but the agent does as well as my email ID. I am not at all against HAP or those who are unfortunate than me and I am happy with the tenant who takes care of the property very well and so do I. I keep mentioning that I am not here to point my fingers towards HAP nor I am unconfortable about this situation. But I still think my agent suppose to let me know that who she was renting and their rent arrangements. thats all. I againg thank you for being so helpful.



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    #24
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,232 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200354#Comment_122200354

    You seem to have been making a lot of assumptions…. But what did you actually sign up to? What does your contract with the agent actually say? What were they authorised to do? What are their responsibilities about keeping you up to date and so on? If you are going to reprimand the agent you are going to have to start with your actual instructions and their actual responsibility.



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    #25
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122204411#Comment_122204411

    "But I still think my agent suppose to let me know that who she was renting and their rent arrangements. thats all."
    - I rent a number of places. I couldn't tell you the name, gender, HAP status, or anything about any of the tenants. This is part of my deal with my agent. I don't care, I pay them to find long-term tenants, and maintain the places to a high standard.

    An agent who emails an owner saying "I have this prospective tenant, but they take HAP. Is that OK?" is opening BOTH of you up to legal issues. That makes them a bad agent.



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