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Shannon Water for Dublin?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Leaks are down to around 30% in Dublin. Other counties are much worse but even if we had 0% leakage we need our water from the Shannon. Currently the Liffey supplies 85% of the water requirements for people in Dublin, Meath, Kildare and Wicklow.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,037 CMod ✭✭✭✭Gaspode


    Name-calling and inflammatory language are not valid means of conducting a discussion. Keep it civil please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Logic would suggest that a country of this size should not have virtually all development in one place. Especially when that place is overdeveloped no matter what international size suggests i.e. we are not China. Dublin suffers from traffic problems, housing shortages, crime, airport issues (taken from Shannon) and now water shortages. Not to mention that it is susceptible to ocean level rises. The sensible course of action from economic, environmental and balanced development point of view is to move new developments away from Dublin, Athlone is only an hour away with all the water you could want!

    No amount of name calling can get away from these facts.

    Post edited by saabsaab on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,619 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    No doubt that they are up for it in Athlone.

    City status is already on the cards.

    This is one of the more ambitious ideas.

    https://www.shannonsuperhighway.com/new-city-of-athlone



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭1percent


    What Logic? Why not have all development in one place? I'm not disagreeing with you but you are not arguing your point, you are only arguing you are right and anyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong. Dublin is overdeveloped so we should stop development in dublin is a Post hoc ergo propter hoc argument. Why is Dublin over developed?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well if you look at the facts which I have outlined already it points to over development in a country this size.

    i.e. traffic congestion, urban sprawl, rising crime, lack of housing and now lack of a basic need water. If this doesn't indicate the problem what does?

    I am not alone in this view.

    https://www.newstalk.com/news/continued-growth-would-see-dublin-become-a-city-state-irelands-uneven-growth-1483336



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    For those who won't click on the link this is what IT's Frank McDonald is saying

    "Dublin is now so congested that this is having damaging effects on it," he said.

    "[There are] escalating land prices and house prices, traffic congestion and pollution and so on.

    "Really the continued growth of Dublin is not in the interest of Dubliners".

    He said the over-concentration of economic activity in the capital -
    as well as "laissez-faire" spatial planning - means "this will severely
    inhibit any prospect of the four smaller cities acquiring a critical
    mass to become the economic engines of their own regions."

    'M50 bypass'

    Mr McDonald said as more and more people commute to Dublin, an M50 bypass may need to be built.

    "The M50 is now the most heavily used road in the country, carrying up to 145,000 vehicles a day" he said.

    "If Dublin continues to grow unchecked, we'll have to build an outer-orbital motorway - essentially an M50 bypass - to deal with all of the congestion that's being created by commuter land".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ah, so you admit the thread is just a thinly disguised way of having a swipe at Dublin.

    Read the room ffs

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    It will help Meath, Wicklow, Dublin, Kildare, Newport, Killaloe, Dunkerrin, Moneygall, Borrisokane in North Tip, Tullamore in Offaly, Mullingar in Westmeath, also 17 supplies currently serving Dublin can be redirected back to Louth, Meath, Kildare, Carlow and Wicklow.

    And this is less than 2% of the YEARLY average flow of the Shannon extracted during the flood season!

    If you want to go expensive, try desalination and you're in to a money pit .

    There's more to Ireland than Dublin @saabsaab you have to think beyond yourself & beyond the pale.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Saying that already exploited rivers and reservoirs were "potential sources of water" was funny, but suggesting the Grand Canal ffs?!? 🤣😝

    She clearly has no idea… canals are not a source of water!

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    What nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

    The smaller a country is, the fewer centres of development it can support. Ireland is a small country and already has several cities, it doesn't need another one. Remember when FF turned a sensible national spatial strategy into "one for everyone in the audience" and doomed it to failure?

    Dublin Airport has loads of spare capacity, it's just not currently allowed to use it due to an idiotic council decision that will soon be reversed.

    The idea that Megacity One Athlone would be free from crime and traffic congestion is laughable. It'll have Irish people in it. Most of them will want to drive everywhere and a good proportion of them will be scumbags.

    The only reason anyone would suggest such an insane idea is that they're either taking the complete mick or stand to profit personally from it. Decentralisation all over again, just a process to turn taxpayers' money into FF votes, that worked out great 🙄

    Frank McDonald? The guy who opposed Luas, opposes Metro but wanted to build a cable car along the Liffey? Riiight. He's well known as a complete crank.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Avoiding the issues with that silly reply. What room?

    The idea is crazy just because Dublin is turning into a monster that must be fed until it chokes?

    Everyone would benefit including Dublin if new development was moved out of Dublin. Athlone is a good choice but perhaps not the only one either. A plus for Dublin is that it is very close.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I believe that a pipeline from the Shannon would be a big mistake similar to the Children's hospital. 14 years being built and still no idea when it will be finished. Built in the wrong place and a total fiasco. Don't repeat this again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Who's on about desalination? Not me reduce demand fix the leaks and manage what you have. The biggest demand reduction would be to move major development out of Dublin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    You're on about expense and claiming that Shannon Water to Dublin will benefit nobody. I've debunked that and named all the areas this would benefit. A comparable solution would be desalination, mentioned in the thread, but the expense is outrageous compared to the Shannon project.

    This thread is about Shannon Water to Dublin you're railroading the thread in to decentralisation and your general pathological hatred for Dublin, Dubliners and all things to do with the Capital. You must have thousands of posts on boards.ie putting down the city and it's people. A search with your name and Dublin in the subject is a real eye opener.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,902 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Yes and Dublin has 3 rivers seemingly, one through Blessington, one through Ballymore Eustace, and one through Islandbridge

    Post edited by standardg60 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well the Canal once was and could be used again if the pollution was cleaned up and treated. Recently Guinness (article of 15 years ago) used filtered Grand Canal water for washing etc.

    Makes more sense that building a huge pipeline.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    You think that this is only about water. It is linked to the over development of the Dublin area and feeding that is not in anybody's interest. Dublin centric thinking at its best.

    Dublin is not a place to be looked up to and has many problems which seem to be getting worse. Just look at the riots in the city centre recently and the tent cities.

    I never said I hated Dubliners. Find a quote that says that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Do you understand what feeds canals and how they work?

    The main water supply for the canal is Lough Owel near Mullingar which is fed by the small River Brosna. Do you think that's sustainable? The Royal Canal is a man-made waterway linking the River Liffey at Dublin to the River Shannon near Tarmonbarry. There is a branch line from Kilashee to Longford Town. Do you suggest a pump from there? How do you get the water through the locks at the speed it's needed for Meath, Wicklow, Dublin, Kildare, Newport, Killaloe, Dunkerrin, Moneygall, Borrisokane and Mullingar?

    Yes, the thread is about Water, it's called Shannon Water for Dublin and it's in over a millions peoples interest. You don't have to say you hate Dublin, it's obvious, just look at your post history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    I know I'm late to the game here, but have you bothered your hole looking for a map of the project?

    Or reading the list of places that will be served by it? The only way to decentralise Dublin to Longford, Mullingar, Athlone, Meath, Louth is to build this project!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭1percent


    I am beginning to see things from the OPS POV We need to make dublin smaller. I propose taking some of the pipe line budget and hiring roiving bands of hurl Weelding men beating people up, on top of that we cut the electricity into the city by half and permanent road works on the M1/4/7 and 11 inbound with only the hard shoulder open with a speed limit of 30kph. Unfortunatelywe are not able to cut the existinging water supply and we may need to carry out an environmental impact study before we mine the shipping lane into the port.

    Obviously the dire situation that is Dublin right now is not deterring people from wanting to live there so we must up the anti to show them the errors of their ways and how awfull a place it really is. We can then house all the economic migrants from the hell scape in mega city1 sorry Athlone 2, the wet sock boogaloo. Once it has cleared the An bord planala review.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I know my history but you can't find a quote? A I thought you just made it up.

    I was showing that canal water was used and to an extent still could be along with other measures. The thread is about water being brought across country at God knows what cost to Dublin. This wouldn't be an issue if Dublin was sucking everything in from the rest of the country to expand even more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    You are seeing it from a Dublin point of view only. Expand Dublin? I say no it's big enough as is and Athlone has no need of this water source.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    You might be taking it a bit far?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    You might be taking it a bit far?

    ' I propose taking some of the pipe line budget and hiring roiving
    bands of hurl Weelding men beating people up, on top of that we cut the
    electricity into the city by half and permanent road works on the M1/4/7
    and 11 inbound with only the hard shoulder open with a speed limit of
    30kph. Unfortunatelywe are not able to cut the existinging water supply
    and we may need to carry out an environmental impact study before we
    mine the shipping lane into the port.

    Obviously the dire situation
    that is Dublin right now is not deterring people from wanting to live
    there so we must up the anti to show them the errors of their ways and
    how awfull a place it really is. We can then house all the economic
    migrants from the hell scape in mega city1 sorry Athlone 2, the wet sock
    boogaloo. Once it has cleared the An bord planala review.'



  • Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭1percent


    I don't know about anyone else but I'm a Limerick City man myself.

    Working in dublin but living outside the pale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Not from Dublin myself even though I was born there and lived in the central city for many years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Lol!! The Grand & Royal canals used to pump water to Dublin! You couldn't make this up!! It's not history, there's no quotes, it's just facts. A small river fed lake feeds one Dublin canal, the river Shanon feeds the other Dublin canal! They're engineered channels developed to transport barges, they have locks, there's now real flow, they're not designed for high speed hydro pumping!

    You're dead against Shannon Water going to Dublin anyway!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Of course I'm against it as will be most of Ireland. The environmental impact people will also be. It's just crazy like something from China or some mad dictatorship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    What does your poll say?

    And why are you insisting that Shannon water should be pumped to Dublin via canals?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    and where does the water in a canal comes from? Think…

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There are many other option too much more suitable that water from across the country!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    What are these "many other option too much more suitable" options? Other than your amazingly ridiculous and expensive idea of taking it from the Shannon via canals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,902 ✭✭✭standardg60


    So you've no environmental impact or use of Shannon water worries with your theoretical city in Athlone but do with sticking a pipe in the ground because it's going to Dublin.

    Is that a fair summation?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There is an Athlone already there! An environmental impact due to expansion would be likely but not a massive expensive, liable to breakage and attack pipeline!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    But your poll says people are in agreement with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That poll is very old but even if they are it doesn't change the issues that will scupper it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    So, it's water to Dublin from the Shannon via canals then?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Water that's there already form multiple sources already nearby like any normal city or town.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    'Apart from some spur pipes that may be added for future possible use in supplying some Midland communities, the idea is there would be no further interruption in the flow until the water reaches Dublin.

    It would arrive at a reservoir to be built at Peamount on the edge of south Co Dublin and from there would run through
    pipes that would be integrated with the existing water supply network
    serving the Greater Dublin area.

    That all sounds straightforward but the reality on the ground would be very different.
    Aside from the human opposition, the landscape throws up considerable challenges.

    The pipeline route — chosen, according to Irish Water, to minimise obstacles and disruption — will nonetheless
    encounter railway lines, a canal, and a major river. Ironically it’s theRiver Liffey, smaller rivers and streams, a motorway, national primary routes, many local roads, and the properties of 500 individual landowners.

    It would have to negotiate a wide variety of ground, from road fill to farmland to bogland to the saturated ground
    beneath rivers. It would lie in trenches up to 4m deep to ensure stability and protection while at the same time enabling the infrastructure to be accessed reasonably easily if needed for repair.

    Landowners would be asked to give up a 50m strip of their property during the
    construction period — possibly for three years — and then to agree to a
    permanent wayleave of 20m.

    The route, and various parts of it, have been altered many times already but while the 500 landowners
    who could most expect to be affected have been notified, there is a
    chance some more modifications could be made.

    Irish Water said: “We will continue to consider requests [for changes] right up to the planning stage.”

    Remember this is the Irish Water that has such a good track record! This project would cost multiples of the cost quoted and be tied up in legal wrangles for decades.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,902 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Amazing you've managed to spot these untapped sources when no one else has



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    The room is the forum, this is the Dublin City forum, why did you post it here and what sort of reaction did you expect?

    Why not post it in Infrastructure? or maybe Ranting & Raving?

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Tender prices are always less than project prices, it’s the same all over the world, you’re going to have to live with that just like everyone else. We built the Dublin Port Tunnel for €752 million and it  transformed the city, it’s largest piece of infrastructure ever delivered in Ireland despite the begrudgers.


    You started this thread thinking you’d get support from similar begrudgers and moaners, but Dublin’s not like that. If you look at other threads on the Dublin City forum (and the Cork city forum) you’ll see that it’s mostly people looking for advice and help, and it’s always forthcoming. It’s a friendly place and your anti-Dublin guff isn’t going down as well as you thought it would. Your canal idea is just stupid, laughable and completely unfeasible, a 12 year old kid would tell you that. 
    The cities of Ireland literally hemorrhage money to other parts of the country with the allocation of central funding that sees some rural authorities get up to 50 times the sums allocated to capital services in one case recently €5.06 per capita was spent on services in Dublin city, as opposed to €260.47 per capita in Leitrim.


    So you’ll understand if the people of the Greater Dublin area who are from all over the country and the world feel it’s ok to have water from our biggest river and your poll didn’t exactly work out the way you thought it would. 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 686 ✭✭✭farmerval


    Did we not bring natural gas from west cork to Dublin and many other areas using the exact same method?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    dey tuk r gaz

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Can't see you getting the Shannon water or the Slaney water. Yous are already sucking a lot of water outa Wicklow. Dublin has an insatiable need for water. The most likely solution is a combination of fixing leaks in the supply system and yes, metered water charges. More than enough water for plenty of years if that's done - cut out the waste.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,886 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Dublin now looses less water than most of the country via leaks and there's large projects at the moment replacing old water mains. Even with all this work, even if we didn't loose a drop Wicklow, Kildare, Meath and Dublin will need Shannon Water. There's more than Dublin in Ireland, think outside the pale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,605 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Da water flows in or de taxes stop flowing out! 😁

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,111 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    As someone living in sight of the Shannon, I'll give this project a nod if in return, a properly sized for future requirements replacement for UHL is built. There have been patients on trolleys continuously for over twenty bloody years and patients are dying.



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