Asking about a raise / promotion before probation is over.

scrotist · 31-05-2024 10:16am #1

I didn't say asking for a raise, just "about"... a little chat.

So my probation is up in August.

I feel I've been doing work above the level I was hired for. I would like a change of title and a raise.

I am currently spoonfeeding a colleague really basic crap that they should know (according to their CV)

They come to me with all their problems, I help them with their projects, but we both have the same title and are on the same level in the hierarchy. This doesn't make sense to me.

I believe they should add "senior" to my title and give me a raise if I'm going to carry the team like this. (Only a two person team for now)

It wasn't in my contract to train rubbish employees that management fecked up by hiring without checking if their CV is fake or not. (Foreign masters graduate from one a degree mill)

If this person was actually knowledgeable, I wouldn't have a problem and wouldn't be so desperate for this change. Because I could also learn from them and it would be a two way spoonfeeding party. I'd be getting value from the relationship. I teach them some cool things, and they teach me cool things.

Right now it's one sided - they get away with knowing feck all and I show them everything I've learned over the years with my blood sweat and tears. I feel I'm giving them thousands and thousands of euros worth of my knowledge for free, and they don't have to lift a finger. Just lie in the interview and on their CV. On top of doing my own work.

How do I approach this in our next one to one meeting?

I am already thinking about job hunting. And making sure I join a team that's at least good at their job.

Another option is to just let my colleague commit all mistakes without pointing them out. I saw some of their code recently that was a complete disaster and will turn their project into a steaming pile of crap. I haven't said anything to them yet. This tactic will lead them to sabotage themselves. Or, maybe I will only give them hints rather than spoonfeed them. Their projects will get delayed, but probably won't be a pile of crap.

So it's gotten to that level. However, if I was paid and recognized as more senior than this person, I'd be happier.

How do I approach this in my one to ones with the manager?

Tell me how · 31-05-2024 10:29am

If you communicate your sentiment in reality the same way as you did here, I'd have serious concerns about promoting you and would regret having hired you.

Your post comes across as someone with an extremely high opinion of themselves and with little to know empathy or forgiveness for the challenges that someone else might be experiencing or the situation or environment of the company in to which they have landed. And that high opinion might be warranted, and the colleague you speak may be close to incompetent, but I managed people who felt and communicated in this way and neither was necessarily the case. Such attitudes are a cancer in a company in my view.

But, that's a subjective opinion so take it or leave it.

From a practical level, If you are having 1:1's about performance, ask if your probation end date will coincide with a formal review of your time and if this is the case, let them know that you will be interested in discussing, at that point, your title and the roles and responsibilities of that title. But when that conversation comes about, I would focus exclusively on your strengths and capabilities and while you can refer to how you have been helping your colleague, I wouldn't say a word about your opinion on their abilities. I wouldn't try to have this conversation before probation is over, but letting them know where your head is at is fine.

Companies can let people go within the probation period without cause or explanation, if you communicate in person as you do here, and I was your manager, I'd immediately start thinking about bringing your time in the company to a close. Immediately.

Grassy Knoll · 31-05-2024 10:29am

Everyone deals with situations like you have described at some point. Personally I think team players do better in the long run, so helping your colleague is a good thing. If as you indicate you have better knowledge, skills etc this will be recognised as time goes on, your managers over time pick up on these things, trust me. To go the route you are suggesting is not good and would be counterproductive for you in the longer term. Also to look for a raise while still in probation is not a good look. My tuppenceworth.

z80CPU · 31-05-2024 12:20pm

OP you will be perceived as a "Ruthless Climber" by the superiors.

Bit late now to back peddle .

Re the colleague you were spoonfeeding : In their own 1 - 1 they may give the impression that you were 'back seat' managing them. Don't assume this colleague will be singing your praises.

Bit late to back peddle

scrotist · 31-05-2024 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205488#Comment_122205488

Maybe I'll add a bit of backstory.

We already fired somebody recently, before their probation was up.

It turned out they knew almost nothing about what was on their CV. They listed 7 years experience in a technology that hasn't even existed for 7 years. I spotted that. It slipped past my manager as he's not very technical.

Anyway, a couple of months ago, he was fired due to incompetence. Even my manager was spoonfeeding him, and he doesn't know anything about coding. He just had enough.

Now they've replaced him with another similar person. This is why I might seem a bit asshole-ish in my post. I'm like "ah for **** sake, not again". Of course I won't word it to my manager like I have here.

I have a feeling my manager is too embarrassed to fire another person that he personally hired, twice in a row and so soon. His management will surely give him an earful if he does. So it looks like they're here to stay.

If this is my life now, I would like to be on a higher level than this person and get a new contract that states I must train in new hires from scratch (in technologies that are on their CV). It doesn't state anything about training in my contract, not even implied. I am literally giving tutorials to them on top of my normal job.

I think I got a bad deal, and I'd like to change it. That's it.

Imagine if twice in a row you got a new team member who said they knew Excel on their CV, and your manager said "hey Jimmy you're getting a new colleague to help you with all your Excel stuff!". But you had to teach them everything in Excel from scratch. Any error message they get on Excel, they send you a screenshot on Teams and say "Hey Jimmy what is this?" And you both have the same title and level in the business (and possibly pay - I don't know).

scrotist · 31-05-2024 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206065#Comment_122206065

It's not back seat managing if they are reaching out to me all the time for help.

z80CPU · 31-05-2024 1:44pm

@Tell me how answered for me.

You haven't worked longer than 5 years in this industry.

scrotist · 31-05-2024 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206446#Comment_122206446

I don't understand sorry.

Tell me how · 31-05-2024 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206419#Comment_122206419

This doesn't really change what I wrote in my first post.

How long is your probationary period? You seem to have seen an awful lot in this company for someone only working there a few months.

If this is my life now, I would like to be on a higher level than this person and get a new contract that states I must train in new hires from scratch (in technologies that are on their CV). It doesn't state anything about training in my contract, not even implied. I am literally giving tutorials to them on top of my normal job.

It's taken as a matter of fact (in technology focused industries more so than anywhere else really) that knowledge sharing and mentoring is something that is taken as a given. Some days you're the teacher, more you're the student. I think asking for a contract that states what you have written to be a giant red flag.

You signed a contract for a role that you were happy with, by all means tell your manager that you are spending much more time training others than you expected/would like to do but then just focus on doing your job. Cream rises to the top naturally and while people do need to put themselves forward, this is coming across as someone who thinks they should be running the company when in reality they probably don't know their way fully around the building yet.

dmakc · 31-05-2024 3:48pm

Be wary of getting an over inflated opinion of yourself. You're apparently better than one person, if this person was to leave tomorrow there's nothing to say that the next person couldn't run circles around you.

Given the hyper focus on degrees and probation I'm assuming this is one of your first roles. Reign it in a little, have patience, and don't give the reddest of red flags in asking for a promotion while on probation.

Outside of a mortgage application, there's no good reason to end probation early it's only 6 months, and it's there for more than just performance. It's about personal fit which I'd have doubts about on the small piece you've written, I've often seen people let their guard down after a few months.

PS nobody knows everything they claim to know on their CV. I was perfect at languages in college that I couldn't even write a simple command for now.

scrotist · 31-05-2024 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207226#Comment_122207226

It's not one of my first roles, I'm actually on the wrong side of my 30s. I have been working in IT for 5 years. Previously was in marketing before upskiling.

I have no problem showing new recruits the ropes, but not if they have scammed their way in.

Anyway, I hear everyone. I'll approach it lightly during my mid year review.

Jim2007 · 01-06-2024 10:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207387#Comment_122207387

There is no really smart way to approach it if your sole argument for a pay increase and promotion is that you are better than your colleagues and it's the price your employer is going to have to pay if they want you to be a team player! But outside software houses where the code is a core part of the product, most businesses are not particularly concerned about the quality of the code nor the fact that most coders are not particularly good at it, even the ones that think they are! Just so long as things work somehow and does not cost too much in money or hassle they are happy. So I think you'd need to be adding value on top of "pay me to be a team player to get very far with this, because the alternative is get someone else while it is easy to get shot of you.

And the other side is - are you really going to be happy doing this kind of work long term and where is it leading in the long run? Only you can decide if it is worth the effort or time to move on.

whitelaurel · 01-06-2024 11:30am

you sound like a melter.

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Asking about a raise / promotion before probation is over.

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