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Vw moving to a direct sales model

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭goochy


    Vw aren't going to be making 2k profit selling a trade in . In the trade . There can't be x2 groups making a profit off a trade in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,468 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    No as I see it..... taking the example of our local vw dealer. They have a car supermarket adjacent.

    Supermarket buys returning pcp vw direct from customer if for some reason vw dealer isn't allowed to. They write a check a fair trade price and settle the finance. Offer should easily beat vw offer if people think they will be offering poor value to the point of dealers still being able to buy off vw after them swallowing up a couple of grand.

    Customer buys new vw online.

    The only way vw could counteract this is to offer extra discount to vw returning customers so either way, value to customer should remain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭goochy


    But alot of people will want to buy a used vw with vw used warranty and vw finance avail. .sales people for these brands will fo elsewhere as there is not much opportunity to sell anymore



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    A number of years ago, I wanted to buy a new Passat for cash. I could not get 1c off the list price from the local VW dealer, despite being known to them.

    Another time, I wanted to buy a VW Golf (used) and the salesman tried to sell me a HP finance deal despite me saying I only wanted to pay cash. I did not even get to look at the car.

    So, I predict this is not going to benefit the customer. I currently own a 10year old VW that I have owned for 8 years and will keep it till it dies.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For all those saying it will put people off buying VWs, it won’t, certainly not in the long term because in all probability, this is the way all manufacturers will go.

    I actually think it will benefit buyers in the long term as it will do away with the different specs in the same model of cars. I have often paid more for a spec above basic because it had a couple of features I wanted, but also included a lot I didn’t want, yet had to pay for. With online ordering, like Porsche, everyone will start with the basic car and only add on/pay for the features you want, this will be a good thing.

    Also, we now have platforms to sell our cars (mostly at a higher price) rather than having to rely/shop around for better trade in prices. A couple of quid and a few minutes on MotorCheck.ie gives you the private and trade in value, sell your car, order new one online and you are done. The days of people needing dealerships for anything other than test drives and servicing are gone.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    What about "goodwill" for work done outside warranty.

    There was often a bit of wriggle room with dealers.

    Will it just be "computer says no" dealing directly ?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Such is life in a digital age. For all those who benefit from wriggle room, there are those who complain about lack of transparency. If a manufacturer clearly outlines what work is covered, everyone knows where they stand before pressing the “order” tab.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, not really.

    The Mazda diesel problem is such a case. The diesel engine destroys itself completely after a number of years beyond warranty. [Something to do with fuel getting into the engine oil - not sure of the details, only not to buy a diesel Mazda.]

    Now, the problem is not for all cars, but it has made diesel Mazda cars impossible to sell.

    VW ID4s are getting a bad reputation over software - be interested to see how that will be handled under the current scheme, and how a similar case would be handled under direct sales.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Is that relevant to direct internet sales? Surely those problems exist irrespective of whether its dealership or internet ordering. If you have an issue with a Mazda or ID 4, it is still the manufacturer rather than the dealership who makes a decision.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The point I was making was not all problems emerge during the limited warranty period. Most manufacturers rely on their dealers to provide 'good will' support to customers, particularly loyal ones.

    Will VW do the same when they sell direct - eating the dealers lunch?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Don’t kid yourself, no Mazda dealer is going to replace an engine without manufacturer approval. Besides, the dealers will still be there for servicing so you can bring it there if you have any complaints.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Goodwill is controlled at importer level, not dealer level in general and VW have a global goodwill platform for determining any goodwill offers to customers for issues experienced.

    Also dont forget the move towards single spec models but locked by subscriptions, this is what vw and others are really after, where the long term income stream will be. Dealers will just get a few to deliver and pdi etc, maybe a cut of any subs subsequently "sold" to the customer and that's it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    As you say in general the importer calls the shots.

    However I know of cases where the importer dug in and refused any goodwill but the dealer went the extra mile.

    Admittedly I'm not talking big ticket items like a new engine.

    We'll see how it goes but this kind of market disruption is usually carried out when the disruptor believes it's to their advantage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I'd certainly prefer to be eyeballing the dealer rather than trying my luck with someone in a call centre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭carfinder


    I expect the new system will benefit the consumer as there is one less margin taker in the value chain. The dynamics of the various competing manufacturers pushing for market share will ensure a contestable market and this should benefit consumers in the purchase of new vehicles.

    The big issue is the trade in and I believe the dynamics of the 2nd hand market will now be very interesting. Manufacturers do not own this market at present but dealers could potentially get disintermediated. An alternative ecosystem at the newer end of the 2nd hand market is entirely possible as the value for the consumer will be the cheaper price on the new car purchase and a better price for their "old" car in an entirely separate transaction to the new car purchase. Challenging times ahead for the dealers for sure



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Casati


    Consumers that don’t shop around or ever considering haggling will potentially benefit, but everybody else will see higher costs. The dealer has to be paid and now VW used car sales division will also need a cut to cover their extra costs so it’s actually adding a layer not taking one away



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,595 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    dealer will now only be a repair centre and an advanced click and pickup so the end of the fancy show room

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,043 ✭✭✭Casati


    You sure? My understanding was the dealer would still need the fancy showroom to display the cars



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭goochy


    i still dont understand how it works - if i am in limerick can i waste a dealers time going on test drive etc then go home to cork and order car and VW will send me to local dealer to collect car ?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    You can test drive car in limerick now and call a dealer in cork, Carlow or Clare and place an order and play them off against each other for price.

    Only thing you can't do now is play off anyone against anyone else for price



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭goochy


    i am talking about in 2026 - you cant play them off each other



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    That's the situation, there will be one price.

    As for wasting the dealers time, I expect VW will be reimbursing dealers for services rendered.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    well I went into one dealer last week looking for a price and was shown the price on the online sales configurator. So they’re obviously getting on board with the direct sales model already🙄. I went elsewhere and they lost a sale.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Better get used to it.

    The variable is what they would have given you for your trade in, did you wait for the answer?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I had no trade in. Salesperson just couldn’t be arsed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭User1998


    But that is the price. Did you not try to negotiate?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Did you look at the VW.ie website? It has a configurator on it, that is what they use. The variable is the trade in.

    We all like transparency, that is transparency if you can go online and see exactly how much the item you are buying will cost you, then you can ask them for a discount. Sounds like you got the hump and walked when they asked you to use the configurator to itemise what you want on your car.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭User1998


    Thats what I thought too. How else are they supposed to know the exact price



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,293 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Thi



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I went in and asked for the price of an id4 pro plus in blue with a tow bar and no trade in. I was very specific. I can look up the website myself.

    When he showed me the price I told him another vw desler had given me a better price. And … nothing. And yes then I walked out.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What’s your issue then? The dealer is charging what the configuator told your it would cost. That is transparent pricing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Tesla have transparent pricing. Vw do not.

    My issue is that he made no effort to sell me a car. The price on vw website is clearly not the final dealer price.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    fits, all manufacturers are going this way. You can look up the price online, some might give you a discount while they can, but the price is there to see. They won’t try and waiver on the price because you know know it before you go in, and still chose to stand in their showroom. Like it or not, that is the way it is going to go. Dealers make money on trade ins, if you are buying without a trade in, they don’t make as much so you aren’t their preferred client.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I’m glad they are going to a direct sales models. I am not impressed with the sales people I have encountered with the exception of one who was clearly an enthusiast and I would have ordered through her if the figures had added up in our side.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But they advised you to use the direct sales configurator, and you walked out, now you want them to use the direct sales model. You do understand the configurator is the direct sales model?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,652 ✭✭✭✭fits


    vw are moving to a direct sales model in *2026*. That is not their modus operandi right now. There’s a direct sales model and then there’s can’t be arsed looking up a price. I’m sure this is boring for everyone so bowing out. You clearly don’t get it.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It is boring, and anyone reading this thread gets it. You can look up what the car you want will cost to buy, because there is a configurator. You were asked to look it up to see the model you want, you got the hump, but you now seem to favour the model that gave you the hump, which would seem an oxymoron. What you term “can’t be arsed” is a sales person saying to you the cost is transparently viewable online. So what is your issue?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,608 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    He seems to have met an unmotivated salesman who told him to go home and do his homework.

    He took exception to this approach and took his business elsewhere.

    As for everyone getting it, well yes we get it but some of us are still a bit sceptical about aspects of this sales model.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Clearly they didn't need the sale. It was a take it or leave it attitude. Sometimes sales people need to sell to reach targets, other times they've reached them already and there's nothing in it for them. In which case they should be upfront about it.

    It's disrespectful to the customer. Traditionally people expect a little negotiation on price, extras etc. If they weren't in a position to do this, they should have been honest and said - sorry not at the moment, can you come back in xyz months and we can fix you up etc. You were right to walk out. The customer is always king. Always. The day a business forgets that is when it's heading for decline.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is why manufacturers are going to direct sales, there will be no sales targets for dealers, only brands, the honest thing to do is say, “the online price, is the price”. That is transparency.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,946 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The bottom line here is that VW are moving to the same model as any other online retailer - the price is the price barring any variables like trade-in or maybe promotions. Think of it like buying from Amazon.

    While this won't suit those who like to go in and haggle or who like to shop around to get themselves what they think is the "best price" (a phrase I can't stand personally when I see it on the likes of Adverts - if I wanted less, I'd have priced it at less!), it will suit those who just want to buy a car as easily and transparently as possible. Not everyone LIKES or is good at haggling, and not everyone wants to waste the time and effort of trying to play one seller off another for the same product which BOTH are ultimately just reselling themselves.

    Those who want to negotiate and satisfy their bargaining skills will still be able to use independent/second hand vendors I'd imagine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭Spark Plug


    I think those customers that did like to negotiate or visit a number of dealers in order to minimise their cost to change figure which I have found can vary by thousands will look to purchasing nearly new cars 6mths-1yr as oppose brand new, however this brings its own downsides in terms of exact spec etc versus a unique factory order.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Negotiations in new car transactions will be focused on what value dealers put on the trade in. The new car price will be transparent, and fixed, but dealers may value the trade in differently as that is where there money will be made on car sales. The poster above didn’t have a trade in so the margin for the dealer is small, and the poster wanted them to make it smaller no doubt.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,468 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I wonder will be see the introduction of independent new car online sellers like the UK who use their muscle to buy in bulk and offer discounted new cars to consumer?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,551 ✭✭✭goochy


    The discount sellers in UK don't buy in bulk they are just agents and find dealers who are willing to do good deals. Thry don't hold stock



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,468 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Yes they don't hold stock but they can get discounts that a single purchaser can't. That can only be down to them buying lots and lots of cars or signing up to a promised number of purchases per year or whatever.

    Anyway, my point was whether we might see something like that here in a time where the manufacturers are selling at a fixed price via website, a discount seller with more bargaining power offering new stock for less.



  • Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭3d4life


    Could expect to be given, at the least, same terms as fleet buyers



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