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Shannon Water for Dublin?

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124

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    #92
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    'Apart from some spur pipes that may be added for future possible use in supplying some Midland communities, the idea is there would be no further interruption in the flow until the water reaches Dublin.

    It would arrive at a reservoir to be built at Peamount on the edge of south Co Dublin and from there would run through
    pipes that would be integrated with the existing water supply network
    serving the Greater Dublin area.

    That all sounds straightforward but the reality on the ground would be very different.
    Aside from the human opposition, the landscape throws up considerable challenges.

    The pipeline route — chosen, according to Irish Water, to minimise obstacles and disruption — will nonetheless
    encounter railway lines, a canal, and a major river. Ironically it’s theRiver Liffey, smaller rivers and streams, a motorway, national primary routes, many local roads, and the properties of 500 individual landowners.

    It would have to negotiate a wide variety of ground, from road fill to farmland to bogland to the saturated ground
    beneath rivers. It would lie in trenches up to 4m deep to ensure stability and protection while at the same time enabling the infrastructure to be accessed reasonably easily if needed for repair.

    Landowners would be asked to give up a 50m strip of their property during the
    construction period — possibly for three years — and then to agree to a
    permanent wayleave of 20m.

    The route, and various parts of it, have been altered many times already but while the 500 landowners
    who could most expect to be affected have been notified, there is a
    chance some more modifications could be made.

    Irish Water said: “We will continue to consider requests [for changes] right up to the planning stage.”

    Remember this is the Irish Water that has such a good track record! This project would cost multiples of the cost quoted and be tied up in legal wrangles for decades.



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    #93
    standardg60
    Registered Users Posts: 4,619 ✭✭✭standardg60


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205378#Comment_122205378

    Amazing you've managed to spot these untapped sources when no one else has



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    #94
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201583#Comment_122201583

    The room is the forum, this is the Dublin City forum, why did you post it here and what sort of reaction did you expect?

    Why not post it in Infrastructure? or maybe Ranting & Raving?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #95
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205422#Comment_122205422

    Tender prices are always less than project prices, it’s the same all over the world, you’re going to have to live with that just like everyone else. We built the Dublin Port Tunnel for €752 million and it  transformed the city, it’s largest piece of infrastructure ever delivered in Ireland despite the begrudgers.


    You started this thread thinking you’d get support from similar begrudgers and moaners, but Dublin’s not like that. If you look at other threads on the Dublin City forum (and the Cork city forum) you’ll see that it’s mostly people looking for advice and help, and it’s always forthcoming. It’s a friendly place and your anti-Dublin guff isn’t going down as well as you thought it would. Your canal idea is just stupid, laughable and completely unfeasible, a 12 year old kid would tell you that. 
    The cities of Ireland literally hemorrhage money to other parts of the country with the allocation of central funding that sees some rural authorities get up to 50 times the sums allocated to capital services in one case recently €5.06 per capita was spent on services in Dublin city, as opposed to €260.47 per capita in Leitrim.


    So you’ll understand if the people of the Greater Dublin area who are from all over the country and the world feel it’s ok to have water from our biggest river and your poll didn’t exactly work out the way you thought it would. 



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    #96
    farmerval
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭farmerval


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205422#Comment_122205422

    Did we not bring natural gas from west cork to Dublin and many other areas using the exact same method?



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    #97
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    dey tuk r gaz

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #98
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,012 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206377#Comment_122206377

    Can't see you getting the Shannon water or the Slaney water. Yous are already sucking a lot of water outa Wicklow. Dublin has an insatiable need for water. The most likely solution is a combination of fixing leaks in the supply system and yes, metered water charges. More than enough water for plenty of years if that's done - cut out the waste.



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    #99
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207338#Comment_122207338

    Dublin now looses less water than most of the country via leaks and there's large projects at the moment replacing old water mains. Even with all this work, even if we didn't loose a drop Wicklow, Kildare, Meath and Dublin will need Shannon Water. There's more than Dublin in Ireland, think outside the pale.



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    #100
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Da water flows in or de taxes stop flowing out! 😁

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #101
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    As someone living in sight of the Shannon, I'll give this project a nod if in return, a properly sized for future requirements replacement for UHL is built. There have been patients on trolleys continuously for over twenty bloody years and patients are dying.



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    #102
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's not Dublners' fault if you can't get your **** together

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #103
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122208869#Comment_122208869

    I'm saying is that this proposed project is daft. Saying that Dublin is expanding too much and that it is sucking resources from the rest of the country is fact. Just look at the Shannon airport stopover. Much of the EU funds were spend in the east and Dublin and not in the rest of the country where it is needed more. It would make sense to call stop on this and create another city near the water and the space. Dublin should look to its own area to find water that may include, charges use of rainwater, canals and other methods.

    I make no apologies for criticising Dublin for its problems which include traffic, housing, crime and now water shortages all brought about by the assumption Dublin will continue to grow unchecked. Will it become bigger that the rest of the country? Hopefully not.



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    #104
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122205667#Comment_122205667

    Many have!



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    #105
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206377#Comment_122206377

    Strawman arguments.

    The Dublin port tunnel was and is in Dublin and didn't involve carting resources at great cost from the rest of the country. Dublin is choking on itself and you can't see that a new counterbalance would benefit the country as a whole. Of course a city area would be cheaper to service that a less built up area and I never made that claim. The water issue is a symptom of unbalanced development but you and many others seem to be blind to this.



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    #106
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    When Dublin wanted electricity, they dammed the Shannon and then shipped most of the power from Ardnacrusha back to Dublin. Now, not satisfied with just the elecricity the water made, Dublin want's the water as well.

    Lets face it, the only version of Ireland that made sense was when Killaloe was the capital, not the illogical version where a Norse viking slave trading compound was expanded beyond it's means.



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    #107
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Again have a look at the region that will benefit.

    20240601_190322.jpg

    Government and IDA cant just force people to move (business and personnel) to Athlone. Give the hatched area increased supply and let the market decide where is best between Drogheda, Balloinasloe and Arlow.



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    #108
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122211034#Comment_122211034

    Nobody is saying move people or existing business to Athlone but rather to make most new developments outside Dublin where this isn't a water issue or many other issues. The market! Leave the water where it is and let the market decide then? This water pipe is 99% for Dublin and surrounds.



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    #109
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    My bad I meant move new business etc not existing, just to clear that up.

    99% for Dublin and surrounds. Exactly! Tullamore, Portlaoise and Carlow surround Dublin and they need stable plentiful supply to grow.



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    #110
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210797#Comment_122210797

    Just going to nip this mythical fallicy that Dublin costs money in the bud. Dublin costs the rest of the country Z€RO. Everything in Dublin and further afield is payed for by Dublin and when it comes to water extraction the city will foot the bill for all taking avail of it.

    Absolutely agree that there should be a counterbalance. In the West or MidWest, but there just doesn't seem to be an appetite for it. We've had centuries of leaders from every part of the country but all of them seem to be content with Dublin being the capital and suckling off it's teat.



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    #111
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122211397#Comment_122211397

    Our 'leaders' were taken in by Dublin and the Civil Service by not Making the Capital Athlone as was proposed on the foundation of the state. Anyway back then and until the last 30 years or so Dublin city's unsustainable expansion was not so much an issue as it is now. Dublin does not pay for everything people are taxed all over the country. EU money has provided much funding too. Perhaps you would like a Dublin City State and the rest of the country run itself?



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    #112
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    LOL



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    #113
    riddles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭riddles


    The water from the Shannon wouldn’t be the best to be drinking.

    Areas of cutaway bog could be flooded and used as reservoirs - install pipes under the grand canal reducing the cost and also renovating the canal in the process.



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    #114
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122210698#Comment_122210698

    No it's NOT a fact.

    Dublin does not suck resources from the rest of the country, the rest of the country is sucking revenue out of Dublin!

    The Shannon stopover was one of the worst acts of economic self-sabotage in our country's history. The whole country suffered for the benefit of one small town. Crazy.

    Can you substantiate your claim about EU funds? Doubtful.

    Ireland does not need another city. We should be encouraging the other cities to develop, but we have a remarkably anti-urban legislature and a mentality that unsustainable, car-dependent, environment-destroying one-off housing is somehow desirable.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #115
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122211710#Comment_122211710

    Be careful, very careful what you wish for.

    Dublin would be an extremely successful city-state.

    The rest of the country would be impoverished, we'd have refugees coming from 25 counties… build the wall!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #116
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122212205#Comment_122212205

    The water would be treated, same as water coming from any other river. The objections get sillier and sillier.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #117
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122211397#Comment_122211397

    I actually had a look on the CSO website for statistics showing public ependiture per head by region, but didn't notice any. I even emailed them in April, but ran into typical Irish civil service efficiency and a response that someone else would get back to me - didn't say in which century.

    So would you mind sharing the source of this information that I failed to find and which the CSO failed to point me to.



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    #118
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122211710#Comment_122211710

    If Dublin is the countries economic hub, if it was to retain the money it spreads around the counties the rest of the country would flounder in a matter of months, it's a stupid, financially unviable idea. It's almost as stupid as your idea of taking water from the Shannon via canals!



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    #119
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,650 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122212657#Comment_122212657

    The info is out there, you just have to look for it. Here's the Wikipedia page about the economy of Dublin, and there's also an article from the Indo about the concerns of some Dublin councillors. If you keep looking you'll find all sorts of reports.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Dublin

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/rural-councils-given-50-times-cash-of-dublin/30107352.html



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    #120
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Dublin accounts for €157 billion of the country’s Gross Domestic Product, which equates to 42% of the national figure.

    The population of the Dublin City and County (Dublin City, Fingal, South
    Dublin and Dún Laoghaire–Rathdown) and Outer Greater Dublin (Meath,
    Kildare and Wicklow) as of the 2022 census was 2,082,605 persons. This equates to 40.5% of Ireland's population.

    With the population and GDP percentages basically being about the same, this implies that it's unlikely Dublin is propping up the rest of the country given 58% of the GDP must be coming from the other 59.5% of the population.



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    #121
    Busman Paddy Lasty
    Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭Busman Paddy Lasty


    Is the GDP figure (Hill 16 is) Dublin only but the population includes Kildare, Meath and Wicklow?

    In other words excluding Intel from your arithmetic....



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