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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

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    #28562
    durthacht
    Registered Users Posts: 722 ✭✭✭durthacht


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216411#Comment_122216411

    I doubt it, personally.

    He was impressive but the coaches have great faith in Ross, Harry, and Frawley. Prendergast still looks a little slight to me which could be a problem against a resurgent Ulster plus potentially the Bulls and Munter. Connacht were poor and didn't really fire a shot last weekend so we just don't know if that would be a problem for Prendergast, but it would be a big risk to take in the playoffs.

    I do think that next year he will eclipse Harry and establish himself in the 23 for the big games.



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    #28563
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,249 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    The counter point being that none of the other options really offer anything game changing coming off of the bench, at 10 anyway.

    Hopefully we're done with the 6-2 bench as well. Haven't seen any benefit from it. It mostly conspired to keep better players on the bench when we needed them starting vs Toulouse, and didn't change the game in our favor when they came on. The final was crying out for some invention in the backs, and we had no one to call on to provide that other than Frawley.



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    #28564
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216496#Comment_122216496

    Of course it counts. But if either win the URC they'll have had a better season.

    I don't really know what the point of asking who has had a better season "so far" really is. If Leinster win the URC I'll be happier but they've left themselves a tough task to do so with their performances throughout the year.



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    #28565
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216626#Comment_122216626

    I don't really know what the point of asking who has had a better season "so far" really is. 

    But but but… it was you who brought it up! You're air-quoting yourself.

    but it's been a fairly mediocre first season for him so far

    I dunno, I just think that with the arrival of the (proper) SA teams and the resurgence of Munster, at the same time as Leinster have their largest ever contingent away on Ireland duty, I think we're understating how hard it is to fight on three fronts. I would cut Nienaber a bit more slack tbh.

    For all the talk of our 'performances' this season, we won exactly the same number of URC games as the Bulls and Munster.

    We should have no excuses against Ulster this weekend and hopefully the following week against the Bulls. We'll have a better idea of where we stand come June 23rd.



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    #28566
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,478 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216571#Comment_122216571

    Sometimes they are ****! No need to disguise or hide it.



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    #28567
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216701#Comment_122216701

    Fair enough.

    I think mediocre is perfectly fair - it's not like I said it was bad. The performances on the field and the results both have taken a backward step - I will reassess if we win the URC but I don't know how any could possibly rather it higher than that as things stand.



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    #28568
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,249 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I would question the seeming decline in ball handling and fluidity from last year. Similar to when Joe left, do players simply lose proficiency of basic skills of they're not drilling it consistently? It's understandable that there would be a change with Nienbar coming in, but the decline of accuracy that was evident in the final was really disappointing. Leinster of last year would probably have hammered that Toulouse team, with the amount of possession in their 22 that we had



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    #28569
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,377 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216533#Comment_122216533

    Nobody has won anything so there's no point assessing who's having a better season then



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    #28570
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,136 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214636#Comment_122214636

    2015/2016 season:
    Leinster top of the Pro12 on 73 points (51 tries scored), reach the final.
    Leinster bottom of their Heineken Cup group on 6 points (5 tries scored), fail to make the knock-out round.

    ** Lancaster joins September 2016 **

    2016/2017 season:
    Leinster 2nd in the Pro12 on 85 points (91 tries scored), reach the semi-final.
    Leinster top of their Heineken Cup group (31 tries scored) on 23 points, reach a semi-final.



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    #28571
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    The vibe is incredibly negative. Some saying Leinster is mediocre and probably won't win. Others saying not winning would be a disaster.

    So they're only mediocre but winning would only avoid disaster. If anyone needed proof that we're spoiled by success as leinster fans.

    I can't wait for the match at the weekend. Hopefully they can get to the semi and go again. Getting to a final is class and winning is rare. At least try to enjoy the season as it unfolds.

    I can see there are plenty of level-headed fans here too.



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    #28572
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,136 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217015#Comment_122217015

    For a like-for-like comparison:

    2022/2023 season:
    Leinster top of the URC on 79 points (82 tries scored), reach the semi-final.
    Leinster top of their Heineken Cup group on 20 points (28 tries scored), reach the final.

    ** Goodman joins July 2023, but takes leave to coach Samoa in the RWC **

    2023/2024 season:
    Leinster 4th in the URC on 65 points (81 tries scored), season still to finish.
    Leinster top of their Heineken Cup group on 19 points (17 tries scored), reach the final.



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    #28573
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122216411#Comment_122216411

    It would be incredibly brave. It would mean leapfrogging him over Harry, Ross and Frawley. If Frawley and one of the Byrnes are involved in the squads, then it means dropping one of them which is a big demotion.

    Leinster has been managing gametime for lots of players in positions like back row for years. But the first team players in those positions are top tier so there's not a great argument to drop Doris for Deegan, for example. But 10 is different as it's a position where they need to strengthen. So there's a different argument to invest in the younger player over the more experienced lads.

    I woukd support them promoting Prendergast, but I'd be surprised.



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    #28574
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217035#Comment_122217035

    What success? I'm only being mildly facetious here. Leinster have failed to win successive tournaments as favourites and at this stage a lot is riding on them putting in a good showing in the playoffs.

    I never said Leinster are mediocre, I said Nienabar's first season is mediocre - which it is. The team look disjointed with the ball, there is almost no fluidity, our attacking game has regressed and our results are worse. Ultimately everyone gets judged on results so we will see what the next three weeks bring. Regardless it is his first season so he deserves another shot. There absolutely should be pressure on Cullen at this stage though.



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    #28575
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    3 European finals in a row. There should be absolutely no pressure on anyone. Anybody that says differently should take a look at themselves and their expectations.



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    #28576
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217090#Comment_122217090

    If you only tune in for the finals then I'd get your point. If you watch the whole season where they win almost every game and ask where is the success, then you're demonstrating just how spoiled we are as leinster fans.



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    #28577
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,136 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217109#Comment_122217109

    Can't both things be true? You can feel fortunate to support such a good team, while at the same time acknowledging when certain aspects of performance has declined somewhat.



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    #28578
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217109#Comment_122217109

    Leinster won most of their games in the 2000s as well. That's not success.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217096#Comment_122217096

    My expectations are not to lose 3 finals they are favourites for in a row (mind you, I don't think they should have been favourites for the Toulouse match). There absolutely should be pressure when you keep making mistakes in the most important game.

    Like I said, it's a results based business so the final judgement will be written in 3 weeks. But if we come out with nothing then 3 seasons with no reward with this squad should lead to some uncomfortable questions.



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    #28579
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    It's not a results based business though. There's no way in hell I'd change the management after the last 3 seasons. We've been so, so close.



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    #28580
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    There’s no way Cullen will be under any pressure. He may decide he’s had enough himself at some point but no way he’d be forced out unless there’s a serious decline from where we are now.

    The fact that people are so dissatisfied with his recent track record is testament to the levels he has brought us to and the standards he has set.

    The IRFU are not going to kill the golden goose.



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    #28581
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217131#Comment_122217131

    Are they enjoying it though? They seem incredibly negative about an incredibly enjoyable experience because leinster don't always win everything.



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    #28582
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217171#Comment_122217171

    1 European cup and 4 domestic titles in 9 seasons is hardly stratospheric levels of success.



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    #28583
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217184#Comment_122217184

    Can you hear yourself saying this? Most people would bite your arm off for that, not to mention the multiple finals reached and lost in very tight circumstances



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    #28584
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,177 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    They get to 3 European finals in a row, all the group stage and knock out success, great days out, and you're whinging that they didn't win them.

    3 years of getting to follow your team all the way to the final. Not winning is disappointing but if you're not having a whale of a time, then you're completely missing the point of following sport.

    I suppose I'm realising I follow leinster for very different reasons to other people



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    #28585
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217191#Comment_122217191

    Ok…good for them.

    I think with the squad Leinster have they should be aiming higher (and yes, maintaining that squad and the constant inflow of new talent is part of Cullen's success clearly). It's obviously a good record, but I hardly think its unimpeachably amazing.



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    #28586
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217184#Comment_122217184

    ok, you don’t rate him, but you are absolutely deluding yourself if you think he’ll be sacked



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    #28587
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217209#Comment_122217209

    I don't think he'll be sacked (nor do I "not rate him"). But if LR and the IRFU aren't asking questions if the season ends trophyless again then they are failing in their remit.

    I don't know why anyone finds this so controversial. Does anyone really think that Leinster haven't fallen short of their own internal targets of late?



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    #28588
    Neil3030
    Registered Users Posts: 17,136 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217177#Comment_122217177

    Probably not, but it's fairly normal to adjust expectations off the back of success.

    No use reminding Man City fans of their recent-ish days in the third tier of English football, once they don't win the league.



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    #28589
    hold my beer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭hold my beer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217216#Comment_122217216

    Sport is more than targets sometimes. More time has been well and truly earned.



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    #28590
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122217216#Comment_122217216

    ”Asking questions “ isn’t the same as “coming under pressure” though.

    “What can we do to get this over the line?” is the question that should be asked. Cullen and Lancaster/Nienaber have got us 95% of the way there, what we need is that last 5%.

    I’m open to correction here, but assuming we pick our strongest team for the playoffs, if we get to the final it will be the first time this season we’ve been able to do so for three games in a row.
    And we’ve only picked a full strength team in consecutive games three times this season.

    Does anyone think Cullen wants it this way? Or that it doesn’t impact performance?

    Would it be better if we also flopped in Europe so we could focus on the league?

    Post edited by Former Former Former on


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    #28591
    conquestscarer
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭conquestscarer


    I don't think he should go this year but if he doesn't win an URC, three years without a trophy with this squad is a disgrace, not good enough at all.



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