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Planning permission required for short term lets

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  • 23-04-2022 5:30pm
    #1
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭


    Hey!


    I have seen some airbnbs above pubs and such doing short term lets. I am wondering, are these legally compliant in terms of the new rules around needing planning permission for short term lets. I know that councils very likely won't grant planning change requests, but does any commercially licensed property (pub/shop/hairdressers) have the same planning permission as is needed for short term lets, or is short term letting a specific type of planning permission?


    Thanks



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    #2
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Short answer is no. Planning permission would be required as there is a change of use. Doubtful that they have done this though



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    #3
    Ginger83
    Registered Users Posts: 3,497 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242939/planning-permission-required-for-short-term-lets

    Short answer is no but councils generally don't give a flip



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    #4
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    Thanks for the replies. So what permission is actually needed for short term lets?


    Are there places zoned for this at present ie holiday home villages where the houses are privately owned but zoned for short term lets?



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    #5
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,621 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I'd start here...

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/owning_a_home/home_owners/renting_your_property_for_shortterm_lets.html



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    #6
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966396#Comment_118966396

    Dublin City Council have a dedicated Air BnB Section within their Planning Enforcement Section, so in fairness to them, they take it serious.



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    #7
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭arctictree


    We have a property in Wicklow that has planning for short term lettings. It used to be our family home until we built a replacement dwelling.



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    #8
    DonnieCorko
    Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭DonnieCorko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968017#Comment_118968017

    Hey, thanks for this info. Can I ask how long ago you sought permission for it to be changed to a STL and what do you believe was the reason that it was granted?


    What exactly is the planning permission here, is it commercial property for tourism? Can't seem to find the exact name/description of the permission required.


    Do you actively do STL on this property?


    Thanks!



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    #9
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭arctictree


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118968309#Comment_118968309

    Hi, we didn't actually apply specifically for this but part of the planning condition for our new house was that the old property can only be used as 'short term tourist let of max duration of 4 weeks. Yes, we do use it now for STL.



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    #10
    mad m
    Registered Users Posts: 9,004 ✭✭✭mad m


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118966470#Comment_118966470

    Wow, interesting



  • Options
    #11
    Ozark707
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    Fines seem quite low. Will be interesting to see how actively the online platforms comply.

    Under the plans, property owners offering accommodation for periods of up to and including 21 nights will need to be registered with Fáilte Ireland. The tourism agency will monitor online platforms to ensure compliance with the obligation for advertised properties to have a valid registration number.Fáilte Ireland will have 10 staff monitoring websites for compliance with the registration rules. It will be able to levy a €300 fixed-penalty notice on property owners who advertise their property without a valid registration number.Property owners and online platforms who breach the new short-term letting rules will also face fines of up to €5,000.

    https://archive.ph/dakuF



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    #12
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214762#Comment_122214762

    not for the platforms. I would have expected it to encourage compliance. That being said, enforcement is non-existent so they might rely on self-verification by the owner.



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    #13
    Ozark707
    Registered Users Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Ozark707


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215092#Comment_122215092

    If the gov wanted to ensure this would have an immediate impact I would have thought the fines would be far more draconian. So there will be 10 people just looking up Airbnb etc to see if they have registered? Surely would be easy to find a lot of low hanging fruit there.



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    #14
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,320 ✭✭✭arctictree


    I don't see how this will change much. Property owners will just have to register with bord failte. There is no requirement to prove that they have planning for short term lets.



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    #15
    SharkMX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215641#Comment_122215641

    If the fines become more draconian all the properties will just come off airbnb and move to the numerous offshore sites that people are using for airbnb nowadays :) They are moving already.

    Im just back from a weekend in Barcelona and booked using one of those sites. I dont actually book on airbnb anymore tbh. I doubt bord failtes 10 staff will be stopping anyone booking on those sites. And once you stay in an airbnb they give you a card with their number and say to bypass airbnb in future if you want to stay there again. Then there are sites that collect all this contact info and you just compare it to the airbnb listing and ring the person direct to book it through another site.

    Ive seen heaps of alternatives to Airbnb already and im sure more better alternatives are already in the works.

    If you want someone to put airbnb back on the long term market you need to make them want to rent the property full time again. We are not doing that in Ireland. The stick hasnt ever and will never work. And in Irish property the stick has been the weapon of choice for years now, with predictable results.

    Find the reasons they arent going on the long term market and fix these reasons. Its so simple, but not popular with the twitter mob.



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    #16
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    @SharkMX

    Find the reasons they aren't going on the long term market and fix these reasons. Its so simple, but not popular with the twitter mob.

    Can't set the rent to current / fair market value between tenancies

    Over regulation - to many ad hock changes

    RTB a soft on tenants and treat LL's unfairly - they cause to much uncertainty and are zero help dealing with bad tenants. They slow down the whole process, you have to go to them the you have to go to court yourself in the end after going through mediation with the RTB.

    Post edited by spaceHopper on


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    #17
    JVince
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭JVince


    Having done Airbnb in two qualified holiday homes, I switched to a permanent rental as it made better financial sense.

    Yep, there was plenty of extra cash from airbnb, but the hassle and costs meant the net additional money was about 20% and that's if you got to 75% occupancy. And the complaining over minor things was unbelievable by some - especially British stayers who invariably then looked for a discount or they'd leave a bad review (we stopped accepting stayers from Britain and favoured German stayers who never had an issue)

    I have two sets of permanent tenants now. Rent paid on time every month. Neither have had any issue and from last inspection, houses are kept in excellent order.

    Too many people focus on the relatively few (tenants and landlords) who try and take advantage. It is a landlords market out there. There's a great choice of really good tenants, so pick wisely and you'll enjoy stress free investment.



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    #18
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218746#Comment_122218746

    What’s your method to differentiating good from bad tenants at interview/application phase? In my experience it’s just luck, but maybe you have more insight beyond checking references.

    You omitted one of the most important benefits of short lets, vacant possession of your property whenever you want/need it. I know it looks increasingly unlikely that SF will form the next government, but if they do and introduce on no fault evictions, the short letters are then in a much better position to you.

    Put simply, most LLs have more than one reason for leaving the rental sector, income may not actually be the most important.



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    #19
    JVince
    Registered Users Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭JVince


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218858#Comment_122218858

    I see my rentals as pure rentals. I don't expect to ever need to sell and they will provide a nice side income in retirement (semi retiring this year). So the "vacant possession" doesn't come into my calculation. It does come into many others esp accidental landlords

    References and cross reference. Social media / LinkedIn. Find out the jobs they are in and even take a view on the company they are working with and they type of job they have and even their family circumstances. Easy enough to do as when one of the properties came up last year for reletting, there were 50+ applicants. (many automatic applications) I chose a family of 3 who had a small dog and had been in their previous rental for 3 years.



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    #20
    DFB-D
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭DFB-D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122218978#Comment_122218978

    I agree.

    I think also, an important factor is the relationship you form with the tenants.

    If the tenants have verified references and an reasonable job, and you also keep a good relationship with the tenants, I don't see why the tenant would simply stop paying the rent or start damaging the property.

    There are obviously circumstances where any tenant can cause issues, such as job loss or where the landlord is selling, but there is not much you can do to mitigate this.

    But clearly maximising rent, issuing termination notices untruthfully for a "family member" to move in or to "sell", not maintaining the property can really annoy tenants, and with scant enforcement of debts, it is surely prudent to be reasonable with your tenants.



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