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Need advice - Sell or rent

  • 29-05-2024 10:40am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 11


    Hi Everyone

    I would appreciate advice / guidance from anyone who has found themselves or knows someone who has been in this position before.

    Current situation - Bought a 1 bedroom apartment in Islandbridge in 2018 for very good price 220k (asking price was 260). Fully renovated and is now, given others which have sold in the development as comparision worth 310/320. Current mortage is around 160 so have around 160k Equity.

    My girlfriend moved in with me 6 months ago and the plan was to save for a deposit this year and buy a house, and the rent from my apartment (between 1900-2100 pm) would cover nearly all of both mortgages maybe 3/400 euro short. My girlfriend thinks we should sell as we dont need the stress of potential bad tennants and we don't need the money as we both make good incomes. I am reticent to sell my most valuable asset and buy somewhere else atm when the prices are so high (to avoid negative equity house if a crash occured) but at the same time my apartment may never be worth what it is now.

    Appreciate there is alot of info in the above bt any advice or guidance from experience would be greatly appreciated

    Thanks a mil



Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    I wouldn’t advise anyone to become a landlord. You effectively lose control of the dwelling and are at the mercy of tenants and the RTB. Read all the threads here from landlords.
    You can sell it tax free at the moment. Once it’s no longer your home you will pay capital gains tax based on the percentage of time it was your home.

    Rent will be taxed at your higher rate and you will be responsible for upkeep.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Thank you - I appreciate the input. TBH with how much you get taxed and the extortionate management fees for the development, which I will always have to pay, I am leaning toward buying low and selling high and selling. The only thing giving me pause is what you can get now for your money. We would be looking at a 3 bed terrace or semi for 375/400 and that could easily fall by 100k in a crash.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    But your post states you are buying anyway, so whether you sell or rent, you are still going to buy a house? Is that right.

    Personally I'd sell, use the equity to get a smaller mortgage and then even if the house drops in price you will not be in negative equity. And you avoid becoming a landlord



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,733 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    If the house "value" crashes, then your apartment value will as well presumably.

    The house "value" only matters if you want/need to sell it. If you're buying a home for the medium to long term, then it's far more important to concentrate on the affordability of your mortgage if interest rates increase or your income situation(s) change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Thanks both

    Ireland rover - yes we want a bigger place so we are buying a house regardless of what happens with my apartment in terms of renting or selling. Would you put all of the equity into the new house to have as little a mortage as possible?

    HeidiHedi - yes it would but it would never drop to less than I paid for it and what the remaining mortgage is so negative equity would never be an issue.

    Ideally, this will be the home before our forever home so probably for 5-7 years or somewhere in that range



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭xyz13


    Check out Dave Ramsey on YouTube.

    Bien faire et laisser dire...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    I think that you're being very optimistic with your 375k figure to even buy an old 3 bed home in Dublin. The asking price may be listed at that but bidding wars are relentless. I gave a previous example of online bids for a 3 bed in Poppintree, Ballymun, asking was 375 sold for 480k. I'd say you're looking at a min of 450k in Dublin.

    If you can get 320k for your apartment now I feel that it's a no brainer for you to be honest, leaves you in a great financial position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Eire Go Brach


    I would go to talk to a broker. The bank might make you sell it or you might need to so you can afford the house you want.

    Bank would not entertain me when I was buying a house In terms of keeping the APT. But you have far more equity that I did.

    Bear in mind it’s only worth what you sell it for when you sell it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Thanks all much appreciated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,840 ✭✭✭yagan


    If you're worried about a crash then it's better to sit out negative equity in whichever is more comfortable.

    I'd imagine apartments are slower to rebound from a crash so perhaps for peace of mind let the apartment go.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    All of the above and more. Landlords are running out of the market. 50% of what you make in rent is taken by the tax man. Then there is the chance of either non paying tennents or squatters (see adverse possession law). Also read the proposed right to accomodation legislation.

    Quit, sell the apartment and buy a new place and avoid messing with the varibles you cannot control with tennants and government bodies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Thanks Supacat / all. Much appreciated. We have decided after the advice on here to sell and not go down the rental route



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    Glad you've made a decision. Good luck with the sale and best wishes for your future happiness.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,427 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Just for an opposing point of view, I was in the exact same situation as yourself a few years ago. Decided to go the other route and kept my apartment and bought another property to use as my PPR.

    Currently two and a half years into it being a rental and it's been absolutely fine. There's definitely risk to it as mentioned above but do have a good think on it yourself and perhaps seek some professional advice before making such a big decision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 829 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    I am thinking we are close to the top of the market. If you cannot see the top then you are in a bubble.

    @o1s1n the market has risen a good bit in almost 3 years. Not that I could see this extended boom happening but the market has limits. Look for markets hints. The state of american domestic credit, house repossesion and delinquency rate. I would not like to be a homeowner when the music stops.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,427 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Oh for sure, there are lots of elements to keep in mind. Entirely depends on what the OP actually wanted to retain it for.

    My own long term plan is to hold onto it as a retirement asset/potential retirement form of income. If the OP is just looking to sell the apartment at its peak value then I'm sure now would certainly be a good time to let it go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,651 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Just a side remark - your gf thinks "we should sell" ………….. it appears it is your property but that you might be going to buy a house together?

    The reason I bring that up is that it might be another consideration for you to have a potential backup property should the other plan go sour.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,427 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Indeed. And if the apartment is sold with the proceeds of sale going into the new house, a fair division of equity in the new property should be looked at based on what each person has put in.

    OP would have a hell of a lot to lose if things went south.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Thanks guys

    O1s1n - what rough % of your rental income do you get to keep post deductions and tax's etc? My mortage and mangement fees account to 850 and I was thinking if I rented it out for 2000, after tax and all deductions etc I would get to keep around 450/500? (25%) is that about right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 diazbro209


    Our plan was, for additional context as my girlfriend moved here in November last year, was for her to get a mortage on her own, with me giving her half the deposit as a "gift". She hasn't been paying rent for my place for that reason and we have both been aggressively saving. We are going to have by the end of the year around 60k in cash as a deposit and she can then get a mortgage of around the 280/290 mark (1500/1600pm Mortage). We wanted to go that route as the rent from the apartment would cover the guts of that and we could each then only have to pay 300/400 euro max each for our new place and still maintain our asset. I have been what one would hope a landlord would be referred to as a dream tenant and I know there are loads out there, but weighing that up against the flip side of that coin is where we are struggling.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,427 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Remember to factor in your deductions. Things like your management fee, mortgage interest relief on the rental property, letting agency fees, repairs etc can add up and deduct significant amounts from your tax bill.

    One thing that's worth keeping in mind that if you have a mortgage on your apartment and want to rent it out, you'll have to change it to a Buy to Let mortgage. When I was changing mine over, the only banks that offered such mortgages were ICS and and Bank of Ireland so it would be good to see what's available. They'll probably only offer variable rates too (I did take a bit of a hit with the recent interest rate hikes).

    Is your 450/500 euro calculation left over AFTER paying your mortgage? That's not a bad monthly return at all tbh. Think of it this way, the mortgage is also being paid, so you're also gaining a bit of an asset each month that you could sell when you're older (or continue to rent out without having the mortgage part to pay anymore)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 653 ✭✭✭Gary_dunne


    You're definitely going to have to look into the tax repercussions of your "gift" to your partner as this could be an issue for you both, CGT and CAT.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Bio Mech


    Definitely agree on that. Also with you owning an apartment and as a second time buyer if you dont sell the apartment you would need a 20% deposit? Or has that changed? If its still so and you buy a house for 400K (which is bottom end as already said) youd need 80k cash and a mortgage of 320, and a house for 400k is very very low end. Likely to need some work maybe. id sell 100%. But yes for a non-married partner youd best check out the tax implications.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭Bio Mech


    Revenue have a good guide on CAT by the way. For a non-married, non-civil partner gift the tax free threshold is on 3K. And youd have to be transparent with the bank on where the deposit came from. CAT is 33% so its substantial.



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