Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

1474850525355

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    That rises a couple of questions.

    How does he run any electrical equipment that requires 5a.

    How did you get an EV there and ( I assume back) if there are no options for charging.

    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's leaving anything that's time critical to very last minute leaving no margin for errors. No one needs to make up any more analogies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If you mean "Black Rain" that's a great movie.

    As for the rest is a combination of historical racial issues and trade / industry protectionism. Remember buy Irish.

    I don't think any of it is comparable to EVs adoption in Ireland. Theres a range of different issues at play. But certainly the sheer volume of anti EV articles in the media plays its part.

    .



  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭Ev fan


    Back to my original point....... could range extenders be a better call than longer range PHEVs given that you could be in EV mode most of the time even on longer journeys- the use of petrol could be on an exceptional basis - eg going on a long journey and being tight for time. Even Toyota might come on board given that range extenders still have an engine which is their 1st 😍 love ???



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I assume not everyone takes such articles at face value. But recognise it's objective is to drive clicks, it's not really trying to inform anyone about anything.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Why do people buy an EV?

    I can only give my honest assessment and I wasn't an EV enthusiast before I bought one.

    Mainly the savings on fuel - I was paying around €280 per month for diesel. I'm paying around €30 for the same mileage. I use the car 3 days (I work from home the other days), and my wife uses it 3 days. She is using less than half the diesel she was using. Between the two of us, we're saving over €350 per month.

    My tax was over €600. Now it's €120. My insurance was €640, now it's €305. I'm saving around €5k a year in total.

    Could a PHEV have sufficed... probably, but my work commute is 130km, so perhaps not. Also, I don't see the benefit of carrying a big engine and not using it. Why have all the components of an ICE, and the associated servicing costs, when I don't need them. A range of 450km is more than enough. I go to bed and wake up to a charged car ready for another 400-plus km.

    In one year, I've only publicly charged 3 times. I've been all over the country and never had an issue with range. It's literally a non-issue.

    (edited due to woeful spelling and grammar as I was on the train after the match!)

    Post edited by RoboRat on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Yes but could you wake up in the morning without any planning drive 1000km Non stop to a wedding, towing a horse, across a muddy field, at 120km for 8hrs on a motorway to location thats 2hrs drive from any form of charging, including a domestic 3 pin socket.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    Does that gem actually add anything to the discussion



  • Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭Baseball72




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    in fairness that’s a sensible rational reason to choose an ev over anything else!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I reckon he saved more than that but his process was for more views, clicks and to suit an agenda of his bosses. Silly article!



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    What PHEV?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    Exaggerated example but you are correct, I have heard people invent scenarios in their head that they'll probably never do

    What about if I've to drive to west cork from Dublin?

    When's the last time you had to do this? Well, never, but it might happen...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I've done that Dublin to West Cork maybe three times in my life, long time ago, once to a wedding ironically enough. ABRP tells me I can do it and hit fast DC chargers all the way, and theres at minimum AC chargers in all the destinations I've been too.

    Someone posted a story on another forum about doing that in a new EV then complaining about having to charge it back up on granny cable all weekend. But as people told them, they past multiple fast DC chargers to get there.

    A more recent similar journey I've done a few times (in an ICE) is Dublin north Kerry which has fewer chargers than west Cork. Bit of black spot. Where I stayed there isn't a charger within 30 mins drive. Though where I stayed there was a Tesla in the car park. So obviously some EVs are managing to get there.

    While I didn't buy an EV for long distance journeys I did look at all my long distance journeys I've done in recent years to see how I'd get there in an EV. That's part of the re-adjustment to driving an EV. I could totally get why others just wouldn't have any interest in that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    MG4 Long Range. It cost less than an entry-level Golf and I was happy to pay that price. I probably would have gone for a Tesla M3 or BYD Seal at the current prices, but I chose what I felt offered good value for money at the time.

    To be honest, I am a bit of a petrolhead (I come from a family of mechanics) so an EV was a big change. I was concerned about range as sometimes I have to visit multiple offices in one day, so I charted my driving for 6 months and noted the mileage and costs. I was looking at another 4-5 year old Diesel but when I factored in the fuel costs an EV made sense. I never bought a new car before because I don't look at them as an investment, and I generally go for a 4-5 year-old as they offer the best value but when I put it all down on a spreadsheet, it was hard to ignore the numbers.

    Wifey wasn't sold on the idea as she had heard all the FUD but I managed to convince her. It's funny, she still gets people trying to pedal the FUD, but she knows better now and loves the car. If I'm not using it, she takes it and it's saved her a lot on diesel too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    I know but I don't see the point of decrying the anti EV stuff as nonsense and then posting that stuff



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    Edit - this is in respinse to @Buddy Bubs post above about trip to West Cork. Dont know why quote function didnt work.

    I did it over the weekend. Was lucky to hit the Mahon Point superchargers with 1 free charger as 3 cars turned up just after I arrived and with only 2 charge points available (2 were hogged by Model Ss that weren't charging) I could have been 40 minutes or more waiting to plug in if I was 3rd car in queue.

    On way back, again I thought I was lucky to have a free charger but for some reason the max charge rate was 95kw/h and pretty quickly dropped to 55kwh so would have been waiting 50+ min to have enough charge to get home. Plugged out after 30min and stopped for 10 min at Ballacolla superchargers for a top up to get home. It's not a major issue but not all plain sailing either



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    It's called hyperbole.

    There are extreme fringe cases, creating ridiculous scenarios and fud. They are fair game for ridicule.

    Then there are valid criticisms like charging blackspots and such.

    Quite easy to tell the difference. Also theres a few posters who throw in a valid criticism now and then as bait and to make their spamming of fud less obvious. But it is actually obvious what they are at. But you can avoid it by using the ignore functionality. I'm sure plenty have me on ignore and we are both the happier for it.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    My favourite is the slowly moving goal post. It wasn't too long ago that a return trip from Dublin to Belfast was seen as an impossible challenge that was the reason why EVs would never be suitable for anybody and the reason why a 2030 ICE ban (as per the programme for government proposal) would never succeed.

    In the times since we've seen batteries get bigger, cars get cheaper and the availability of en-route charging increase dramatically. The M1 is still a bit painful thanks to Applegreen's slow roll out of decent hubs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    If it takes you an hour at 55kwh does that mean (guessing about battery size) you were at 20% getting to 80% which is the optimal way to rapid charge anyway.

    I assume you can't sustain 95kwh from 0-100% anyway.

    Need to up the cost and fines for blocking chargers. But sounds like you didn't have to queue anyway. Certainly queuing for chargers is a valid criticism of the charging network. If I was doing regular long distance driving, where there is limited charging, an EV wouldn't be my first choice for sure..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think it's new technology expecting it to be perfect is unrealistic. If you don't want to be on the bleeding edge then don't.

    I realised on one of my few long distance trips in the EV that my usual stop on the M1 at apple green that I did in an ICE isn't viable in my EV. There are better places to charge and in my case a circular longer route on a motorway is vastly less efficient (and slower) than sticking to a shorter national route with less drag and more regen. It's all part of learning new tech.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,665 ✭✭✭traco


    I just updated the stats on Mrs Tracos MY RWD which has now covered over 10k kms in 8 months and here's a positive spin on the ownership side. BTW this case is on the fringes given the ICE it replaced

    Total electric spend €427 between high speed and home. It does get charged at work once a week. A quick run of the numbers factoring in what her ML would have cost and fire selling the Y today at 35k it would be 80c per km for the 10k kms. However as there is no intention to sell therefore any depreciation is irrelevent at this point. If we keep it until it dies the depreciation slowly disolves into the cost per km over the life of the car.

    The basic headline savings over the ML are as follows:
    ML Tax Oct 1500, less the 100 for the Y. Saving €1,400
    Fuel for 10k kms; ML = 1,600 - Y = 400 . Saving €1,200
    ML Repairs - who knows as it was replaced due to a rear SAM fault and as tax was due we decided time to change. Board would have been 1k and who knows what else I would have found when I fitted it and coded it so its not put in for these calcs. Assume this is an old high tax ICE being replaced with a modern BEV.

    So fuel and tax saving over 8 months is €2,600 for her or €325 per month. Maintenance not as big a factor for us as I would do most of the servicing on the ML so it would be parts only and my time. That is looking like an almost 4k saving for the first 12 months for her.

    Based on the above and stating this as a petrol head if you have an older higher tax ICE and aren't interested in flipping the daily hack every two or three years for a new plate a current mid range BEV should be very high on your list. Charging does take a little bit of planning but is very managable and I think the net cash savings definitley outweigh the five mins it takes on ABRP and pliugshare to come up with a plan.

    Sorry it doesn't fit the negative media mantra but it is what it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    I get the point he was making. You list all the positives and sometimes the response is some inane scenario that never happens… but 'could' happen, and this is peddled as some kind of justification to not buy an EV.

    Yes, you could end up having to do some crazy unforeseen journey, and an EV might not be best suited… but the real questions are (a) the likelihood of it happening, (b) how often it may happen, and (c) how much of an inconvenience would driving an EV cause versus an ICE, and (d) is it enough of a reason to ignore the cost savings? The problem is that those questions are rarely considered and the crazy journey is seen as some kind of gotcha moment.

    I have no problem with what people buy - it's their money. I've said numerous times that an EV is not for everyone, especially if home charging isn't feasible. However, when the 'logic' for not buying an EV is some fantasy trip, then there is no logic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    I was at 20% and needed to get to 90% at a minimum to get home. On way down I charged from 20% to 80% in what I thought was under 25 min but the charging speed started at around 150kwh so I was surprised it didn't exceed 95kwh on home leg.

    Anyway It worth bearing in mind that if you are confident about charger availability, it's sometimes worth unplugging before 80% if charge rate is slow and get a quick splash and dash closer to destination. Again all down to having decent charger availability. Tbh 4 chargers at Mahon Point is not enough while 8 chargers at Ballacolla is probably fine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    I have a regular trip to West Cork and used to stop in Mahon point but at busy times I just charge in Ballacolla now each way.

    Usually have a second non charging stop to allow passengers a break as it's a 4.5hr drive, but wouldn't bother stopping again if by myself



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    The problem with Ballacolla is that you cant take on enough juice to give adequate buffer to drive around at destination and make it back to Mahon Point on return trip. Dont have destination charging but maybe worth a top up at the one ecars 50kwh charger within a reasonable distance from my destination.

    Anyway the 7 seater will be making the journey the next couple of trips as the full clan of 6 will be travelling so a few non stop trips coming up



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 4,449 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Ireland - Poor government policy (especially for fleets), very costly Toyota PR campaign paying off, purchasing power, and cultural aspect.

    2024 will be a flat year in Europe. With regards to Ireland, it's hard to predict but unless gov policy changes, I think it's going to be an overall drop vs 2023.




Advertisement