Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Several things, but of course asylum seekers will be ushered to the top of the factors here because — like clockwork— where there is an influx of foreigners then foreigners will be blamed for societal issues where any link can be made, regardless of whether those problems were pre-existent or if there are much more significant factors at play. If the asylum crisis that has unfolded (internationally) since the ending of Covid restrictions and the Ukraine War had never happened, we would still have a housing crisis. And I venture people would then simply be blaming the plain old legal migrants for it anyway.

It's easy to see why this thread has become an unending roulette of anger and scapegoating when it's pretty clear even by this comment that people are more interested in arguing with phantoms than, you know, what people actually say.

I've never said our asylum system isn't being abused and I have no idea how you've taken what I said as being anything remotely close to an assertion of that.

It's an unending roulette of consistent accusations from all sides here, while I'm pretty sure most people posting on this thread are decent folk.
In my opinion from reading the majority of this thread, most or all anger/frustration is towards our response or lack of it from our government.
The majority of people on this thread are nauseated from pointing out the abuse our current IPA system is enduring while been labelled ridiculous slurs etc…

In the ideal world, immigration/proper border controls and asylum politics should never be a left or right dogfight. Look at Denmark's model, under a left centre government managed to control/deter immigration, cutting immigration by 80%. Some people will never be happy with any solution, we can't please and house every person that arrives at our shores, but a middle ground is needed!

Our government have dropped the ball yet again on another issue, I've absolutely no confidence in their capacity to fix this mess.

But who is arguing otherwise? Is there anyone on this thread who thinks our asylum system is not in need of reform or that the crisis that has unfolded since 2022 has not exposed problems, inefficiencies and inadequacies with that system? Is there anyone in government right now who thinks that?

You say look at Denmark. Denmark took in over 30,000 Ukrainians despite having a "zero refugee" policy — and even before that took in about six times as many Syrian refugees as we did in that crisis. They have had experience in handling these situations in ways that we have not. The difference this time was that there was also a major displacement of European people, something we could not avoid the way we avoided Syria — and it coincided with the tail end of the Covid crisis. Our system was overwhelmed, we have struggled to deal with it, and that's it, no matter how much people want to pin it all on Roderic or Helen or the blue haired transgender snowflake next door.

Mistakes have been made but ultimately the world shifted against us and exposed a flaw. Now we have to lift our heads, stop pointing fingers, and find the ways forward.

I asked if the candidate could explain why on earth the Irish government was continuing to welcome in so many asylum-seekers and refugees in the face of our glaring inability to help them effectively anymore; that the state is splitting and cracking at the seams in the face of ever-increasing demand for accommodation, yet our government inexplicably behaves as if we have an endless well of resources. (I had read some weeks previously that a meeting of the Public Accounts committee was told that more than 5,000 asylum-seekers landed here between January and March - a 75% increase on the 2,900 arrivals here in the same period last year.)

I got no coherent answer to that.

There is a housing shortage, It does not matter when or what date it began. Today there is a housing shortage. Increasing the population will make it worse. This is a fact. It doesn't matter who is to blame. Blaming anyone is pointless. We cannot solve it by bringing in more and more people that we cannot house.There is no point going over the past. That's done.

Our system was overwhelmed, we have struggled to deal with it, and that's it, no matter how much people want to pin it all on Roderic or Helen or the blue haired transgender snowflake next door.




If someone else is mentioning someone's hair color, gender and or the phrase's "snowflake", I'd bring it up that particular poster…

But, you've mentioned 2 public servants currently employed in the highest of powers as minsters.
They've made the decision to public life in Irish politics, both on numerous occasions as acting minsters made some blunders.
Helen's speech towards Sunak regarding illegal AS/IPAs arriving via NI.
Helen ignored many reports of illegal AS/IPAs that were exploiting the NI route into ROI many years ago. The report of a serious sexual offender that arrived as an IPA sometime ago was ignored from her too… I could go on… all the news articles are there to google up..

As for Rodric,
Tusla reports, referendum humiliation and his non existing presence anywhere regarding immigration, I'll just leave it there.

They are both minsters responsible to control and implement polices that require to protect the state's borders, finance and stop any forms of facilitating human trafficking. They're not immune to criticism with how they're currently dealing with this mess.

You say look at Denmark. Denmark took in over 30,000 Ukrainians despite having a "zero refugee" policy — and even before that took in about six times as many Syrian refugees as we did in that crisis


Denmark agreed on a completely different visa for Ukrainians escaping the war. With regards to Syrians escaping the civil war, which was over 10 years ago so this might be before Denmark changed immigration/AS laws, I'm not 100% sure with Syrian Refugees.

I've never once said they've a zero refugee policy. They're a million miles away as Rory would say, on immigration/ asylum policies. Denmark, Ireland and Poland have the same out-clause on migration within EU contracts, we've every right to enact that clause but seem too happy to continue these "obligations".

Would you agree Arthur, some government task force (even done years ago) could request assistance from there Denmark's counterparts and build from their template… The logistics, finance and manpower are available to buff up our system similar towards the Denmark system.
Never advocating for a "zero refugee" policy, it's never possible and I'm happy we take our share but taking in 30k per year off mostly failed IPAs into our country is absolutely insane.

Do you agree with the Danish model on immigration?

yes exactly . It was already a problem that needs fixing asap . It certainly wont be fixed by allowing financial migrants in . We need to solve our housing issues before we even think about trying to house any more people

I always compare issues like this to a simple example . If I have a three bedroom home and have 5/6 children to feed and clothe and have enough beds for them I have to prioritise them first

I cant offer a bed to another 10 or 20 people because it’s impossible then to ensure that everyone is comfortable and I would be compromising my own childrens comforts .

I do not see how this can be relevant. Today … The Present …. no matter who comes here …. we have no houses. If the Irish who are abroad, already have houses here or if they have family here who can house them, well then they are fine. But for anyone else. We do not have housing. The latest Eurostat figures showed 68% of Irish adults aged between 25 and 29 were still living at home in 2022. We do not have housing / affordable housing for those who are already living here - Irish or otherwise. Saying we cannot have outward unless we have inward still changes nothing. Saying we all want EASY international travel changes nothing. Right now we cannot even house who is here. We have to come up with a plan for the future.

The other danger of following the Danish model is the risk these 'go it alone' approaches pose to EU unity, which is presumably why a lot of the pro-Putin far-right parties in Europe are pushing for same.

As probably the EU country most dependent on membership, Ireland taking action which could threaten that unity would be Brexit like in it's self destructiveness.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44632471

https://theconversation.com/how-migrant-crisis-could-lead-to-the-break-up-of-the-eu-41727

https://www.reuters.com/breakingviews/eu-is-stuck-with-its-one-trick-refugee-policy-2023-10-09/

https://www.voanews.com/a/greece-wants-eu-to-slap-sanctions-on-countries-that-won-t-accept-return-of-illegal-migrants/7297844.html

https://apnews.com/article/eu-migration-solidarity-responsibility-crisis-f62ce6fb5b5d72e46641c7e9d52a92e8

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/17/mediterranean-migrant-crisis-could-collapse-eu/

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-eu-is-divided-in-its-bid-to-stop-the-boats/

https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/migration-crisis-can-it-make-or-break-eu-over-question-of-borders-118071200625_1.html

I don't know if many realize just what's involved with Denmark's approach either. With out history of institutional abuse I'm not sure it would ever find favor with the Irish public.

Here's some more information on the Danish approach.

https://unbiasthenews.org/living-in-fear-in-copenhagen-how-denmark-is-deliberately-infringing-on-the-rights-of-people-seeking-asylum/

https://jacobin.com/2021/02/denmark-zero-asylum-immigration-refugees

https://www.fairplanet.org/story/surviving-denmarks-open-prisons-for-undeportables/

Key to the Danish model is a punishment camp approach. These punishment camps are housed in former prisons and are pretty clear in what they set out to do, there have been reports of long spells in solitary confinement for small infringements such as using a mobile phone.

An officer of one of these centers explained that “Our role here is not, as in imprisonment, to minimize the negative consequences of imprisonment. On the contrary, the negative consequences are an implicit part of the construction of these centers.”

IPA's given deportation orders are sent to these camps until they either can be deported, or leave. People are leaving but it seems they're not returning home. In a 3 year period 3,500 disappeared from these camps presumed now scattered around Europe.

As an approach to send people elsewhere in Europe it seems to work to a degree for some member states (others have taken elements of the Danish approach, though not as extreme.) What seems unlikely is that it would work if more broadly adopted, as many would likely just stay in the camps with no option to go elsewhere, as was the case in Australia.

I'm not sure if it's in the above articles or if I read it elsewhere, but part of this deterrent approach means children are denied access to education. Though the numbers in these camps appear small in Denmark (as most leave and go elsewhere) there are some going through childhood and teenage years with no education whatsoever. If that were to happen on a larger scale throughout Europe I would think the consequences pretty obvious.

Clever Danes.