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Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 738 ✭✭✭Sir Galahad


    it’s not finished. The lane still had works ongoing inbound last week.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    The inbound section is open for segregated cycling, all the way to the over bridge at Amiens St. A small section was closed recently for a bus stop reinstatement. And the odd partial closure for day works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,026 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    I saw that in the paper - any info anywhere on what they're actually planning to do? The footpaths etc were redone a number of years ago and are already fairly wide. The main problem seems to be some of the people who congregate in the area.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Lighting and seating are what I read in one of the articles. It's only 2.5 million, which doesn't get you much these days.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Drove along it a bit more, so here's some quick impressions/updates on the route.

    Five Lamps is basically done, very small area outside the spar there that's tarmac will need to be done, but the junction on that side is complete. The far side over by the funeral directors has not really started yet, so I assume that's next there.

    The shops at Fairview (the spar, two pups, etc), the pavement works are complete, as are the car parking spaces. They are now working on the road itself there, currently laying down a wide sheet of some material. Once that's resurfaced that area will essentially be done.

    Edges corner over to Gaffneys, a lot of work still to be done, but work only started on all this recently enough.

    Javaholics and the shops there, past Josephs, work essentially done, looks like they' just waiting to resurface the road in places. No work being done here at the moment, so as mentioned previously (I can't find it now) no works until the exams are over.

    Lots of work required from the motor school, up past Marino College, all the way to the Malahide road junction. Crucially, this seems to be just surface work required, so won't take too long once it starts back up there.

    Malahide Road to Howth Road, basically done.

    I have been asking into a few shops around there, and it seems like most places don't like the work but are doing ok. The butchers are ok with it, albeit pissed off with the lack of comms(I think, it was a while since I was in with them), Grafton Barbers think they're exactly the same, and two pups (I did not ask them this, so only my opinion) seem incredibly busy, considering that people are sitting out next to a building site and main road. I just don't think that these works have changed the equation for most people down here. It was a hostile environment before the works, no one was crossing the road without a set of traffic lights, and if the parking was full, they'd park on one of the side streets. It's exactly the same as before in almost all ways.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Excellent overview. Just to add:

    • There is an open pit and exposed pipes on the footpath/cycle path at the corner of Howth Road, in front of the Church there.
    • There are currently busy working on the area around Malahide Road/Marino Crescent, around the bus stops and cycle lane there.

    By this last one is sort of funny, they are building a nice segregated cycle lane here on the end of Malahide Road to connect into it. However under the bus connects plans, there is no such cycle lane on Malahide Road (the section from Griffith Avenue south) and the plans don't show the cycle lane infrastructure currently being installed!

    I wonder if they will dig it all up again in a year or two when they start building the BusConnects corridor on Malahide road! I really hope not, that they leave it in place, because the BusConencts plan for here are very stupid, no one cyclist coming down the Malahide Road is going to take the stupid detour over by Brian Road.

    The cycling plan for this part of the Malahide BusConnects corridor are really STUPID and badly designed.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    There is an open pit and exposed pipes on the footpath/cycle path at the corner of Howth Road, in front of the Church there.

    I believe that the water pipe works are done here, and what they're doing next/now is just the traffic light works. I may be wrong on that, but I've been past here fairly often, so I do think it's just the traffic light works left here. That'd tie in with the works on the island in the middle too. All sorted on the park side already.

    There are currently busy working on the area around Malahide Road/Marino Crescent, around the bus stops and cycle lane there.

    This is the weirdest part of the whole project, really. Such a let down for pedestrians over all, there's absolutely nothing there for people crossing from further up the Malahide Road on the bus stop side. There's no pedestrian lights, no raised pavement, nothing to stop cars from heading down this slip road at high speed. There's already damage to the pavement there, where a van went over the concrete while it was still wet. There's literally tire tracks set into the concrete.



  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Haha that'll probably pay for 3 flower beds, one bench and maybe some new bins. Don't expect any of the new public drinking fountains they're talking about 😅



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Now that you mention it, when I was passing yesterday, there was a lot of traffic control people around the Malahide Road junction and it looked like they might have been moving barriers, so perhaps approaching completion.

    I agree 100% with you on that dreadful slip road on Malahide road. Absolutely deadly junction, one of the worst in Dublin and it will likely only be a matter of time until some one is killed crossing it, I've had a number of close calls myself and that is with me normally trying to avoid it!

    There is one small improvement with this junction, the crossing along Marino Crescent to the entrance of the park now has a raised pedestrian crossing, but if you are crossing to the bus stops and beyond, you are truly risking your life!

    BTW Just to add, I just checked the BusConnects plan and there is no planned improvement to this crossing under the plan. Clearly they cant be bothered creating a safe pedestrian environment!

    This is a perfect example of where cars are prioritised over pedestrian safety!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    How is the slip at Malahide road going to be finished? Will it have a ramp up over the bike lane, so possibly yield to it?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Already plenty of public drinking on that street. 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Proof that if you've a good business that people want to support, they will still come.

    An ancient and grotty looking jewellery store clearly wasn't in demand, and he used these works as an excuse to justify the closure of his business.

    I mentioned a neighbour that was lamenting the closure of businesses as a result of "the cycle lane". I'd bet my house that he never once gave Duggans any business.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,417 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Yeah walked down there today, looks like it, as with any left turn going througha bike lane drives will have to yield to bikes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    People also blamed it for the closing of Edge's hardware. But while approaching 80, I think he was just ready to retire. New business opened up immediately, after some works. Funnily, they have had issues with illegally parked cars blocking their new customer carpark at the rear.

    People also blamed the works for the closure of a motorbike store at the Five Lamps. Which coincidentally had planning for a tall apartment block in it's place.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Took a look down here while I was voting, it's all just services left. The red pipes are the pipes that they put cables in, and they were threading those pipes under the drainage pipe that's connected to the drain there.

    Despite the look of it, there's not much left to do here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,530 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    About a month away from finishing that opening I'd say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Pat Kenny on the radio this morning… "Uhh as they're digging up the road, why didn't they install a Luas line from Connolly to Clontarf…"



  • Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Oh holy God. If only it was just THAT simple. Christ Almighty



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Paul2019


    No doubt if the NTA had proposed putting in a Luas line, Mr Kenny and his Radio Show would have been fully supportive of the project.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    He was serious about that, I mean not only would it completely use up all the road space, but there's already a Dart running out that way…



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Well the post 2042 Luas network map published in the last GDA Transport Strategy has a Luas line going from Connolly to Fairview Park, then turning up the Malahide Road to head to Clongriffin, so it isn't that crazy.

    It wouldn't take up road space as it would just replace the bus lane. Or rather the bus lane would become a mixed Luas/Bus lane.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    I can see that turning into the "2082 Luas network map" by then maybe they will have Mag-lev tracks..



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    We have a pretty excellent track record (LOL) of building out Luas lines. Relatively speaking they are pretty straight forward compared to mega projects like Metrolink and DART+.

    The BusConnects Infrastructure project gets you most of the way in terms of a full bus route, it is then largely just upgrading the bus route by laying Luas tracks on the bus route.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    2042..ffs

    This is needed today, not in 18 years. The volume of houses being built between Northern Cross and Malahide is huge, with a road resembling a country laneway serving the area. Traffic on the Malahide Road is often heavily backed up. A combined luas and bus lane would be a great service for the area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,926 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    New apartment block on the Malahide road doesn't have a car parking spot for every single apartment, just a few and expensive I heard?

    Plus you can see on the South facing side there's what looks like a large set(s) of bike racks..



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It is unfortunate, but I believe it was a choice between Metrolink or more Luas lines. The folks who normally develop Luas lines are currently working on Metrolink, which is the biggest transport project in the history of the state.

    The BusConnects Infrastructure project will improve the bus infrastructure before then and lay the ground work for future Luas line.

    Plus you can see on the South facing side there's what looks like a large set(s) of bike racks..

    Pretty much any apartment building built in the last 20 years or so is required to have lots of bike parking per planning permission. Often a lot more bike racks then car parking spaces.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    BTW I'm not defending stupid comments made by Pat Kenny or anything like that. Just pointing out that there are plans for such a Luas line and I'd argue it does make a lot of sense.

    I suspect, that in time all the core bus corridors into the city will be turned into shared bus/Luas lines. We really are approaching the limitations of the capacity of buses and bus corridors and need Luas to keep up, specially with likely ongoing driver shortages.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,026 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    since the Luas network was proposed in the late 80s we've built 2 lines and a couple of short extensions. Granted that's more than we've managed with heavy rail or metro but it's hardly an excellent record. The fact that they're issuing documents showing what they might do in the 2040s is indication of the lack of real ambition - they might as well be talking about putting an Irish person on Mars for all the basis in reality is has. What we do have an excellent track record in is the production of plans and reports.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I always roll my eyes when people say things like it was in planning since the 80’s! Some vague concept existed in the 80’s in strategy plans, but that is meaningless. As late as 1998 the government were planning for the green line to go to the airport with a tunnel under the city!

    Real planning on the lines we have today really only started 98/99, with the RPA being formed as an independent body in 2001 and construction begun the same year, with the lines opening in 2003.

    It was remarkably fast from real planning to opening.

    Once the money and political will is there, TII are remarkably professional at actually building out Luas lines quickly and with little fan fare.

    The post 2042 network is quiet doable IMO, they are just busy with Metrolink at the moment.



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