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Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭munsterfan2


    2 for the price of one today - I know we were a bit far apart, I'd slipped my chain so we were trying to catch up with the group…. https://streamable.com/doa20n?src=player-page-share



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Ugh



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 Kissy_Lips


    Not a lot to be gained engaging. Best to ignore it. One time as motorist I was at the entry barrier to Trinity street car park. A cyclist flew up to the open window and said I nearly hit him. I didn't see him at all before this. I checked my mirror turning off Trinity street and all was clear. I've no idea where I might have been close to him. I said sorry I didn't see you. Then he got madder and redder and said I nearly hit him. I said I didn't see him. Then he got even madder and even redder and was apoplectic. I felt trapped and couldn't see a way out of this so I got apoplectic and we just screamed at each other till he moved away from my window. Pointless.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I disagree that there's not a lot to be gained by engaging.

    If you don't engage, nothing is going to change. If you do engage, reasonably, in a civil manner, there is a chance that you're going to impact future driving by that driver for the better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,238 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    this kind of engagement is not recommended: Kilkenny driver took hurley from car boot and ran after cyclist on south Dublin street in ‘heat of the moment’



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Don't necessarily disagree with you, but I just couldn't be arsed. The cyclist v motorist c**p driven by the media means you're just as likely to do as much harm as good by even trying to politely engage. When the State starts to take the issue of road use and safety seriously, then maybe I'd reconsider. But its not my job to be the primary educator of other road users, however well meaning.

    Dangerous driving is a different issue - there, yes, I'd certainly make my views known.

    My approach is to take the opposite angle, and I try to show my appreciation for considerate drivers, cyclists, pedestrians where possible. Hopefully build a bit of good karma on the roads.

    But as I said, I don't judge anyone who takes inconsiderate drivers to task. It's just not for me. Can't be bothered with the negative energy that sits with me for the rest of the spin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    Only got out of my car once in my 35+ years driving. A few years ago a car pulled out in front of my at a roundabout. I was in correct lane, had indicator on (and dipped lights) and traffic was moving at brisk walking pace. He tried to force his way between me and car in front (a car length between us) and I didnt let him. I blocked him, he blew horn vigorously . We all stopped at this stage. So I stepped out and want back asking what his problem was … He said I should have let him in. I said I was on roundabout, had priority, was in right lane and had indicator on. He said , well, you could have let me in if you wanted. I told him to learn the rules of the road, and left him to it at that. Told this story a couple of times to friends over the years and response was always the same "you took some chance going back to him …. he could have been a nutter …. had a hammer …. etc" . So I chalked it up to a bad call on my part, and try to curb my initial righteous indigitation .

    As a cyclist now, I agree with above poster. I try to reward good driving. A polite nod when I get let in / out. A little hand raise when a walker or fellow cyclist gives room to pass, etc . Dont know if it will do any good in the great scheme of things.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    There is an extremely remote chance of anything bad happening of you confront someone. You will find the odd case but very rare. They will get mouthy alright. O have rarely had anyone genuinely apologise



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Experience has taught me that the only chance of an apology is how you approach them. If they are going to mouth of, they will mouth of regardless of how you approach them but there are a subset who will say sorry, they don't always get what they done wrong but its better than nothing at all. It normally takes a softly softly approach. This said I had one guy jump out to deck me because I shrugged my shoulders at him as he ran straight through a crossing where I had the right of way, so sometimes doing nothing at all is also not risk free.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's not about an apology. I don't give a toss about whether they apologise. I just want to know that there's a chance that they'll think twice the next time they are faced with a similar decision.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    And if they apologise, it shows they understand that something they done wasn't correct. They start shouting at you like it is your fault, they think you are too blame and that view is reinforced, whether right or not. I don't need an apology either, I want them to understand that no one was hurt this time but that what happened was not appropriate or acceptable. Personally if they had a way of showing that they understood they got it wrong and would learn from it, I'd sooner not interact with them at all. Same reason that I am more understanding when someone looks panicked and apologetic, holds up their hands and mouths they are sorry. They know they have done something wrong, we don't need a conversation, they know the issue and there is a better chance they won't do it again for awhile. Same reason when I f*ck up, I always turn to them, raise my hands and shout sorry about that or my fault, no need for them to inform me or have a follow up.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I think in Ireland we generally need to speak up more. Whether that is calling someone out for littering, bad behaviour on public transport or the examples in previous posts.

    As a society we are way too meek and prefer to mind our own business. The new phenomenon of being labelled a "karen" also hinders people speaking up.

    If you do not speak up then no one will. The Gardaí won't do it neither will the councils. I would like to think that someone who you had a go at would think about their actions later which might change what they do in future if for no other reason than having someone have a go at them again.

    I understand people not getting involved but I think it shirks your responsibility as a citizen.

    In Germany it is normal to pull people up on bad behaviour. You even see it if you don't wait for the green man at pedestrian light. "Es ist röt!!!". It normalises good behaviour whereas saying nothing normalises bad behaviour.

    maybe I am just naïve



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    I'd gladly tell someone to **** off if they called me out for crossing the street on a red pedestrian light.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    I am sure you would and it proves my point that bad behaviour is normalised here. You are doing something wrong and when pulled up on it you react with aggression. That is the story of many of the posts on this thread.

    Post edited by Pawwed Rig on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Very true, since I commute by bike I rarely get public transport but last week went to a gig in the city centre and on the last train home which was relatively quiet there was a middle aged (as in he should have sense) man across from me playing tiktok videos on his phone with no earphones. Was annoyingly loud so just said "do you want to turn that down", no response but he immediately turned it down to a level I could no longer hear.

    People are incredibly self centered and selfish, real mé féiners whether that's must get in front at all costs on the road or inflicting their personalised media on others sharing a similar space.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    See where you're coming from but its difficult because at the end of the day, lots of things are subjective. Everyone has their own view of what happened, what should have happened, what's right, what's acceptable etc. If anything we're becoming too policing of each other's behaviour. And it most definitely should be for government/ local government to implement policies and legislation and for the Gardai to police unlawful behaviour. The fact that they don't or that there's been massive under resourcing/ neglect of the Gardai is another issue for another discussion.

    I'd love if people could just become a little bit more tolerant of each other, accepting of the fact that we all share public spaces (how you/ I want to see them used isn't necessarily how others do), and yes, certainly, considerate of others when we're in public.

    I'm married to a German and spend plenty of time over there. German culture has its good points, but god they'd also try your patience and some days the place just seems full of cranks. I don't mind because its a novelty and I'm only there for short periods, but my wife often can't wait to get out of the place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Even when they don't apologise, even when they're roaring at you, there is merit in intervening. If you ignore bad behaviour in any context, family or workplace or on the street, the bad behaviour persists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Reminds me of this scene (excellent Aussie series by the way, 3 seasons of short episodes up on Disney+, well worth a watch)

    Not advocating violence but when there are no consequences people will keep pushing the boundaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Even objectively speaking there are blurred lines between what is unlawful/ dangerous and what is simply ignorant/ selfish.

    Then you have to factor in the issue of subjective perception. Scientific studies have shown that even people who witness the same event will have different recollections of it even a short time after the event. How much of that is down to memory and how much of it is down to perceptive bias I don't know - driving too fast, driving too close, pulled in/ out too early/ late… we'll all have slightly different tolerances in the absence of real time data.

    Then you have the issue of what is considered 'reasonable' or 'polite' confrontation. Will a female driver perceive my dialogue through a closed window to be threatening or aggressive simply because of our genders, whereas a male driver would view it differently.

    Few of us (in my experience anyway) are masters of language and communication skills. So the further away from plain dangerous/ illegal and the closer to 'inconsiderate' driving we go, the muddier the waters and the more difficult it is to objectively determine fault and degrees of fault etc.

    Beyond an exasperated look and throwing of hands to the sky, 9 times out of 10 I just couldn't be bothered taking inconsiderate drivers/ cyclists/ pedestrians to task.

    I firmly believe that people's behaviour will only change when something becomes socially unacceptable, and generally things only become socially unacceptable when the authorities take action to confirm that to be the case, whether through legislation or advertising campaigns. Drink driving, seat belts, plastic bags, smoking, discrimination in the workplace etc etc. Attitudes have changed hugely in those areas in my lifetime. Unfortunately in other areas (fly tipping/ littering, general road safety) the government has shown no real interest in fixing issues, and so they persist. So while I'll appreciate efforts by individuals to try and educate other road users as to how to be less of a d!ck, I'd much prefer the government to take a long overdue proactive role.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    That is exactly the irish mentality. Do something wrong and lash out by shouting.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Don't see what's particularly Irish about it at all to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I don't think you have the right definition of social acceptable. Social means people, not authorities.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,724 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I am just saying that once it starts, there is nothing to gain but making you feel better. Not saying don't do it, but if a person jumps out of a car to deck me for calling him out for poor driving, he isn't going to learn unless he gets arrested for assault and truth be told, as much as I care about road safety, I ain't being a martyr. Chances are that they will still believe themselves in the right.

    As someone else said, until enforcement breeds culture, then for a certain contingent, nothing will change.

    Hands up though, there are times where I don't practice what I preach and I fully engage. It achieves nothing but make me feel a bit better but it doesn't actually achieve anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    Has anyone seen @cyclingmikey on YouTube?

    He's a vigilante cyclist who goes around London filming bad road behaviour and sending it in to the police.

    He's got points, fines and bans for many many motorists - including a few celebrities.

    I'm not sure he'd survive an hour in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,974 ✭✭✭✭Stark




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    It wasn't a definition, it's a concept. The fact that social apparently means people not authorities has no relevance on what is deemed socially acceptable or not. If the authorities bring in a law aimed at changing people's behaviour for the general good of society, and that law gets public buy-in (see further - plastic bag levy, smoking ban, compulsory seat belt wearing), then it becomes socially unacceptable to be seen to be, for example, using plastic bags like they're confetti, smoking in a selfish manner in non-designated semi-enclosed public spaces, driving without a seatbelt etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    He's been discussed loads of times on here before. TLDR; opinion amongst cyclists is divided as to how much his modus operandi benefits other cyclists. I think he's been discussed to death on here… it's certainly not a debate I want to get into again 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    He's the exact opposite of a vigilante. There's quite a few people doing the same thing in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,633 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Cycling Mikey runs into a lot a very entitled folks on his daily rounds. The kinds of folk I think any public roads and neighbourhoods would be better off without.

    His methods certainly divide opinion, but with a track record of getting some folk to change unacceptable behaviour I reckon you'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Some of his clips are certainly entertaining - have a look for the Chris Eubank one. Guy Ritchie another.

    A lot of "do you know who I am" going on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭JMcL


    There's a good indepth interview with Mikey on the Wild Ones podcast (episode 46 from about a month ago) where he explains his rationale and come across well. Worth a watch/listen (also available audio only in various places)



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