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Dangerous Dogs Owners

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Common excuses trotted out by the Pitbull/ XL enthusiast. All disingenuous or plain false.

    10. Its the owner not the dog.

    9. Other dogs can bite too

    8. He/she's never done that before

    7. Pit Bulls get a bad rap

    6. Pit Bulls are lovers not fighters

    5. The pit Bull attacked because it was probably abused/unloved

    4. My Pit Bull would not hurt a fly

    3. Golden Retrievers are more likely to bite than Pit Bulls

    2. Punish The Deed not the Breed

    1. It is impossible to correctly identify a Pit Bull



  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭SpoonyMcSpoon


    Upon reflection, ideally more XL bullies would kill their owners and thereby end up making themselves extinct. Otherwise, I think a public notice and amnesty to cull any XL bullies spotted in public should be issued. It should be perfectly acceptable to go up and kill an XL bully on the street in order to protect the public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    And how many Rhodesian Ridgebacks are there in the US in comparison with Labs? 20%?

    Because any less than 20%, ie 1 RR for every 5 Labs you meet, means that Ridgebacks are statistically more aggressive than Labs.

    And I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that there are a fraction of the number of Ridgebacks compared to Labs, even in the US. Way less than 20%. Possibly less than 2%.

    ETA: It's about 4%: Although Rhodesian Ridgebacks are still a relatively rare breed (about 2,000 AKC registrations per year, compared to more than 50,000 for breeds such as Rottweiler, Doberman, and Labrador Retriever)

    To make it clearer (though I know with such tiny numbers this is not literally accurate, but will still give an idea of the relative risk) - if there were as many Ridgebacks in the US as Labs, one could expect about 25 times as many fatal maulings from Ridgebacks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Excuse my ignorance but can an XL be trained to attack on command? Like say for example a word that they would respond to even if they heard it on Alexa for instance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Labrador retrievers are not a aggressive dog



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I don't know but if I had to guess, that wouldn't be one of my guesses as to what happened. More likely something went wrong when she arrived late at night into the house facing a bunch of pent-up, frustrated dogs who may have already been fighting among themselves. Or maybe something uncharacteristic in her behaviour arriving late at night after a night out wound them up even more than they already were. Hard to say. But I don't believe a word from a radio would do it. That would take amazing training - and TBH overtraining doesn't seem to be the issue here.

    But on your question about dogs trained to attack, I was told by someone who works with police dogs that once a dog is trained to attack humans, they're never really safe to be around. Once that "psychological" barrier is broken in the dog teaching it that it's ok to bite humans, then it's liable to bite humans.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Fair enough, just find it odd.


    The dogs clearly knew her as their owner. Possibly she even raised the pup.

    Her ex boyfriend alerted the guards from cctv footage that he may or may not have watching.
    Then sent it to her family.

    She has just broken up with him a few days before & went out for her birthday.

    The dogs attacked as soon as she came in.

    The most dangerous time for a woman is when she leaves a relationship.

    RIP Nicole.




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Plus and I’m guessing , maybe a drink or two which masked her scent. I’ve seen it with friends the dog knows but when they turn up with a few drinks in them the dog goes mad



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,330 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    The biggest kunts of dogs for postmen, speaking from personal experience, are those bichon types (small white haired dogs that are so territorial its ridiculous). Would often go biting at your ankles with your back turned. Often wake up half the neighbourhood with their incessant yapping too.

    Collies/sheep dogs are great. Its almost like they wait to hear the van coming, and love chasing it out. Makes their morning. Never had any hassle with those breeds at all.

    One breed that I wouldn't trust are those husky types (excuse my ignorance on not knowing the exact breed). One lunged at me last week when I was throwing a parcel inside the open front door, not knowing it was there having not being forewarned beforehand. Only I managed to close the door in time, might have been nasty, and not a peep from the owner either. Another one is literally screaming about a foot from your face from the other side of the fence to the post-box, some day it'll manage to find a foothold and break free.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Yes I have to agree that if the dogs were never exercised then they would be not in good mental health. But don’t owners use treadmills with weights sometimes for fighting breeds?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I was thinking of that too - I don't know if it's the scent or whether it's because the person's whole demeanour changes when they're a little drunk. Like the way they say there can be something that triggers a dog in the way toddlers walk/run, and that you need to be particularly careful with babies of that age around dogs.

    Or I was thinking like we saw clips of her dancing with the dogs, and maybe arriving in a little bit tipsy she might have been overly affectionate to them, grabbing them and kissing them - the way people sometimes are with their (human) friends when they're happy-drunk. That's "human" behaviour that dogs just don't "get" IMO. Like the comments above about "mollycoddling" - it's people doing things they think dogs should like because humans like it. But dogs don't. Apparently they even show signs of stress when their owners hug them:

    But yeah, those are all just complete guesses. They do seem possible to me though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    we a have collie type mongeral and I know the postman . Rather than chance the door he’d reverse up and hand it through the window 😷😷

    Postmen and guards . It must be the uniform



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Apparently Sky were reporting that they attacked as soon as she put the key in the door.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Well she had to have opened the door, so that's not completely accurate. I really don't know. But I think the idea that they might attack on a word sounds implausible, because it's actually quite hard to train a dog to do that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Then maybe as cj maxx suggested above, she suddenly seemed like an unknown threat to them as she walked in. Maybe arrived differently to how she normally arrived home, eg maybe someone else's car, or maybe walking when she'd normally arrive in the car, so that they didn't hear her arrive/didn't know it was her. Dogs are not night animals, unlike cats - they don't like strangers walking around at night.

    (Sometimes they don't even like their owners staying up too late and disturbing them, when they sleep in the living room - but they'll usually just sigh or groan at you, rather than attack!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Yeah I wasn’t sure, I would have thought police dogs, protection dogs (shepherds etc) can be trained to attack on command but as you say VERY high level of expertise and bond between trainer & dog.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes, that's why I can't really see a random command from Alexa or something doing it.

    But of course we're talking about properly trained dogs, where part of the training is to be neutral unless the trainer gives them a signal to attack.

    There's a lot we don't know about these dogs - what if she or someone else was training it to attack, and doing it badly, or doing it with an unstable dog? By definition it wouldn't be possible to say what would trigger the dog in that case. Maybe even a command from Alexa. Who knows?



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Yeah I’ve thought about that but most dogs will relax as soon as they recognise their owner, voice, sounds of walking, and definitely scent which remember dogs can smell from great distances. Whether she was wearing perfume or had a drink, I imagine rightly or wrongly that they would still recognise her. But maybe not, maybe she didn’t go out much at night, maybe it was a special event for her birthday, God knows it’s expensive to go out for a drink but when you have multiple dogs that sell for thousands I guess you can afford a drink. I read she was literally on the phone to her sister minutes before it happened so the dogs would have heard her talking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I hadn't thought of her breeding them. Has that been said or are you thinking that just because there were so many of them?

    (Not that it would likely make any difference either way, especially if the attack was really the minute she walked in.)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,201 ✭✭✭yagan


    Maybe she sneezed and that was all an animal bred to kill needed.

    There's no excuses for a killing machine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Allegedly, it was the mother dog and her pup (which I don’t know how old of a pup) that killed her. The two other dogs were cross breeds from restricted breeds and they were destroyed also. That’s what I’ve read in the media anyway, apparently these dogs sell for €4/5k each?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I've just read your edit: that sounds a bit sinister on the part of the boyfriend doesn't it? Could he have done something??



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    I really hope I’m way off the mark.

    I just don’t like the sound of the ex (allegedly on coke) at the time alerting the guards because of the doorbell cctv or whatever footage he received. And then that got sent to her family. Her/their dogs (monsters or not) bloody well knew her as their owner.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    That's crazy. So it was the pup that she (seems to have) bred that she posted on facebook about needing training for an excitable dog? If so, sounds like very bad breeding doesn't it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    That sounds … odd, alright. Jesus.

    I thought you meant could there have been some mad coincidence by which a dog had heard a trigger word just when she arrived in. Not at all the same thing.

    (Still hard to imagine, TBF, but - who knows? Way beyond my knowledge of dog training anway!)



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    Ah Volchitsa….you only read that bit now! 😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly


    100%



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  • Registered Users Posts: 43 mrsmalooly




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