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European Parliament Elections 2024 - Friday, June 7th

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Benthere


    A lot of armchair generals who rant about immigration probably didn't vote.

    The left remains terribly fractured outside of SF.

    The far right terribly fractured too.

    Thus FG and FF should hold their own.

    The one to watch is ind Ireland. But I would not call them far right

    Sadly like a reoccurring virus Lab might take the last seat in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Benthere


    SF caught napping on immigration.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    No one is going to have a warehouse full of scanners available for hire, possibly on short notice, that can meet the required spec for paper size handling and quality - so if we want to do this, we'll need to buy them and pay for them. We'll also need staff to bundle the papers, feed them in, take them out, control the bundles to make sure nothing is counted twice.

    We'll also need the option of reverting to a paper count in case of dispute, so the manual count staff may well still be required.

    So a huge investment, adding significant risk to the process, to possibly save a few quid on payroll?
    It's not a brilliant business case, is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Some really shocking SF tallies from long time heartland areas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,623 ✭✭✭golfball37




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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You would also destroy the security provided by the anonymous, secret ballot and enable vote selling and duress voting.

    How would this help?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,937 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    It doesn't its just more of the "paper ballots are slow therefore bad" logic. Anyone pushing that logic doesn't understand that security, visibility and confidence are far more important in a voting system than speed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Why do Labour still get such a bad rap after 2011?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The number of scanners would not be one per constituency, but a number for each count centre. If they choose to hire, I would think the USA might have some available as they only use them once every four years.

    The stock paper/card would need specifying, but that would be well before use.

    Handling the ballots would be much the same as now. They would be easier to handle if they were card. The mail is scanned by An Post with little problems, so ballots can be handled safely enough and the scanning could be accurate.

    Any doubtful scans would be passed to a screen for a human verification. The verification would include checking the vote is valid in that the numbering starts at 1 and sequences up to the highest preference.

    The ballots per box would be available for checking against the original - one against one - in the case of a dispute. This check is to match the paper vote against the record of that vote. To facilitate this, each ballot could carry an identifier (not related to the voter).

    A random number of boxes would be checked anyway. Errors found might result in a total paper count.

    So, renting the scanners should be possible, and they might be cheap by the time we get round to needing them. The procedure to do it must already be in use around the world - or else how do they manage. Once we have the ballot transferred to a file accurately, the computer can do the rest. The theatre could be retained by only announcing the stage results after each count delayed sufficiently to allow excitement to build.

    It could actually use fractions of a vote for greater accuracy to identify the winners.

    I think that counting votes by electronic means would cut down on errors, costs, and speed of results. All positive aspects. Owning scanners would be investing in wasting assets - not a good idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,715 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    What errors are being addressed? Are there errors now?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,948 ✭✭✭Christy42


    And you just open the far right talking points saying the machines are biased and waste time on those court cases. See the US.

    I don't think there is currently an issue with errors. I would need a cost assessment to share with is indeed cheaper given they have to be transported over etc. So you are left with speed as a benefit and most people simply don't care that the count takes a little longer, it just isn't a real negative.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I would be surprised if there were not. Otherwise all recounts would not result in a change of figures.

    Other errors arise from the procedure used to treat surpluses, particularly at later parts of the count. The current procedure relies on the randomising of the votes by thorough mixing, while the computer would use fractions of a vote. The current procedure only uses single votes, while each vote should be assigned in fractions, as done in the Senate elections.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Benthere


    I was glad labour were In power 2011 onwards but they filled the original cabinet posts with old fellas like Quinn and Howlin. Hardly radical. They prevented FG from total obliteration of public services but made no serious attempts to reform them

    They also like FG deserve some blame for not seeing the housing crisis coming down the tracks.

    Wasting millions probably 25 on the same sex marriage referendum also annoyed me.

    It wasn't a priority. It was a sign that the party had been taken over by a Dublin set who were mainly interested in woke issues.

    Aodhan is from that brigade



  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Benthere


    As for voting through computer. Of course it's possible. There was one count done with the machines and was not legally challenged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,318 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Left-leaning voters demand higher standards of their reps and have a lot more options than those in the centre or on the right. Betrayals like this are still remembered (even when the details of austerity measures are generally fading from memory) and brought up by other left parties



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    The voting is with pencil and paper.

    It is only the count that is done by using a computer program to use the data scanned from the ballots.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    SO I wonder how the bold Niall Boylan will do / is doing?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,937 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    By all accounts he was looking well earlier and on to be in the race for a seat with his 1st preferences, however it seems he's getting very few transfers so will not go the distance once they start moving down the preferences.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Seeing on twitter that Sinn Fein have rated lower in 5 local electoral areas than 2019!

    Total disaster.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,815 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Sort of an expected type of thing these days with the geopolitical state of play. One would hope after HSE hack lessons were learned and people looking after such things are more clued in

    A CYBER ATTACK attempted to take down a number of government websites overnight, The Journal understands. 

    Four different groups have been identified by the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) as having carried out what has been described by sources as a “simple” attack whereby government websites are continually reloaded until they crash. 



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Sinn Fein full tally for Dublin is 11% , up 1% from 2019.

    Fine Gael up 4%.

    Very embarrassing for Mary Lou.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,295 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Labour down 1% in Dublin full tally. Very bad day for Labour again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,944 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    Give us the full picture not them ole half stories .Where is the DJ



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    MLMcD hasn’t a clue:


    Sinn Féin difficulties  


    Sinn Féin Dublin hopeful Dáithi Doolan admitted this is a “very difficult” election for the party.
    Mr Doolan is set to hold his own seat as a Councillor but party leader Mary Lou McDonald is being criticised for running too many candidates which have split the vote in many areas.
    “I’m delighted in our own area that our vote is absolutely held up at a time that is very difficult election for us, nobody can doubt that,” he said.
    He said he topped the poll and “held the vote” in “core areas”. Mr Doolan said people were “really, really angry and upset” on the doors while out canvassing.
    The focus for the party now is to get Lynn Boylan elected in Dublin and to win a seat in Midlands North West and Ireland South, he said.
    While he did not concede, he said Ms Boylan getting her Dublin seat is “absolutely” the party’s priority.
    Mr Doolan said it was a “big blow” to the party when she lost the seat in 2019.
    “We are very confident we’ll be taking three seats in total for the MEPs. Am I in with a shout? I hope so, but for me, it was working as a team with Lynn to make sure we ran the best campaign possible to take the two seats and it looks like she’ll be up there in taking a seat.
    “If I can join her, I’ll be delighted.”

    She got hammered last time for running too few candidates, & now the opposite.

    I’d say her days are ( rightly ) numbered.

    EDIT: I took the above from the Irish Independent site.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,937 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    LOL so they swung too hard the other way after not running enough candidates in 2020



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Not forgetting Rabbitte’s admission on TV that ‘sure politicians lie to get into power’.

    That quote will never be forgotten.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    When the votes from Palestine are added in, it will deliver a big swing in seats during the count.

    SF worked that paddock hard, much harder than old stomping grounds in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭Polar101


    SF had 2 candidates in each of the three constituencies, it doesn't seem excessive. Would they have done better if they ran 1 or 3 instead? I doubt it. Seems obvious that when there's 2 candidates one of them will get more votes. :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,378 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    Also this, which I find hard to believe:

    Midlands-North West: European tally

    In percentage terms the top ten candidates in the European Parliament election in County Monaghan according to a tally of votes from all but four of 118 boxes are as follows: 1.   Michelle Gildernew (SF)  26.17%2.   Nina Carberry (FG) 18.97%3.   Peadar Tóibín  (Aontú) 7.23%4.   Barry Cowen (FF) 6.92%5.   Niall Blayney (FF) 5.91%6.   Luke ‘Ming’ Flanagan (IND) 5.04%7.   Maria Walsh (FG)  5.02%8.   Lisa Chambers (FF) 3.80%9.   Ciaran Mulloly (Independent Ireland) 3.13%10  Hermann Kelly (Irish Freedom) 2.58% 

    Michael Fisher



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭techdiver


    So loss of votes by Sinn Fein is to do with what? I'm assuming their position on immigration? But then what sense is it to vote for the established parties instead who are actually implementing the disastrous policies?

    Or are the Sinn Fein votes going to fringe candidates instead and FF/FG are just getting the usual party loyalty vote?



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