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Russia-Ukraine War (Threadbanned in op)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,689 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Putin (and Russia officially) already considers the Donbas and other areas presently under occupation as already Russian territory, so nothing new there. Its not just Crimea.

    In fact the more extreme Russian views are that Ukraine does not really exist as an independent state.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    There’s been so many red lines that barrels could be filled with russian red paint and sold to India or something

    And there will continue to be as one thing Putin can’t afford is a war with NATO, even a much diminished nato



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Yes and I suppose my oversimplified take on geopolitics at the moment is this:

    American and China are rivals because they vie for world leadership and hegemonic control. The EU doesnt care sll that much about whether China overtakes the US provided trade remains open.

    The EU and Russia are rivals becausd the EU wants peace and security and Russia wants to invade its neighbours. But the US doesnt overly care about whether Russia invades its neighbours so long as it doesnt drag them into a full scale war.

    Thus, the US wants the EU to care more about China and the EU wants the US to care more about Russia.

    In the event that the US lets Europe down, it wouldnt surprise me if the EU seeks to build up its relationship with China.

    The EU would prefer if China didnt invade Taiwan. But if the US backs away from Ukraine, the EU certainly wont stick its neck out for Taiwan.

    The upshot of it all is that, domestic politics aside, the US needs the EU far more than they let on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Putin has more red lines than iv'e had dinners. The guy is a con artist. It's inexplicable that the west still hasn't the balls to give Ukraine what it needs to get the job done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    I honestly think the hope is gradual degradation over time. Russia could crack overnight as often happens when the thumb is pressed down too hard on the people. It seems locked down and then bam, revolution arrives like a thief in the night.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,213 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The only red line for Putin is a nuclear attack on Russia because he'd have nothing else left to fear. He's a bully and like all bullies is ultimately a coward. He'll rant and threaten but ultimately he only has one ace up his sleeve and using that ace is signing his own death warrant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,002 ✭✭✭rogber


    Crimea is a long, long way from falling.

    But yes, if that ever happened he would go ape sh*t. What that means in real terms who knows... Many politicians speak of red lines and end up doing nothing. Obama and Assad and chemical weapons springs to mind. In the end he chose to let hundreds of thousands of Syrians die rather than act when the supposed red line was crossed.

    Of course, for Crimea and Putin it would be more a question of personal pride



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Field east


    no one expects Crimea to fall ‘immediately’. If Crimea ever comes back to UKr then the return to it has already started with all those strikes on big/small boats /ships, etc , etc, etc, etc.. the Russians do not currently know/will never know when , where ,with what and with what intensity the UKr will strike. There will then come a time when Putin has no choice but to withdraw Because of too many losses, too costly, an about turn by his replacement, domestic coup changes things, etc, etc, etc.

    The constant drip by drip bombardment cannot be ignored by Putin as insignificant



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    The howling from Russians about strikes back into Belgorod has completely undermined their message that Crimea, Donbass, Luhansk etc are “Russian”

    They even started referring to these “new acquisitions” as Novo Russia

    Which ironically enough also completely undermines the message they try to spread in likes of Africa about Russia being anti colonialist when they are literally planting colonies and started a colonial war

    Tho that’s the thing about Russian noises and propaganda, they often argue mutually opposing and contradicting positions



  • Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭scottser


    If he launches a nuke, it'll be from Belarus or one of his proxies.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Field east


    I reckon that if any sort of a significant missile is launched from Belarus or another proxy that UKr will respond fairly quickly with ‘bells and whistles’ I expect that it will not hold back in the same way that it is holding back from attacking Russia on Russian soil.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    There was a good video posted earlier, which discussed that starting lobbing nukes would be the absolute most stupid thing Putin can do for about a dozen reasons

    So Putin detonates a nuke (doesn’t matter if it’s via a proxy, probably actually makes things exponentially worse for Russia) the first question to ask is “what’s next”

    And there is no scenario in what follows where Putin and Russia endsup in a better position, none, it’s all rapidly downhill from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,882 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    The question is could it be easier to take back Crimea, than all the other regions, & then use it as a bargaining tool ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,006 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Tbh I don't think taking back Crimea by occupation is necessary. They just have to permanently deny it to Russia by making it untenable for them. That's happening by totalling the black sea fleet in sevastopol and threatening the Kerch bridge. They do need to get the eastern land corridor though now that Russia has built a dratted railway to Crimea. Destroying the bridge last year would have been fab, this year not so much. The allies are always behind the curve in this war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭Dubh Geannain


    Following the Dublin count here. Daly is not out of it unfortunately. Umar Al Qadri just eliminated could send a few votes her way on account of her prominence with regards Palestine.

    I'd love if Bríd Smith somehow passed her out so that Daly's transfers go to her and not vice versa.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,822 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    The land corridor isn't really that great an improvement for the Russians, though. If the Kerch Bridge is gone and their ferries are being blown up in port, they're still reliant on a single supply line, and one that's actually closer to the front line for much of its length than the Kerch rail connection. And then it has to cross the peninsula's choke-point to be of any use to whatever Russian troops/bases/people are still in Crimea.

    While in theory a rail line can be repaired quickly, the materials and equipment still have to brought to the location and remain there for as long as the job takes. The Russians can't provide air defence along the whole stretch from the border to Crimea, and it only requires a single track to be buckled to make it unusable. So with the munitions they have at the moment, and moreso if they could whizz an F16 over the top, it'd be relatively easy for Ukraine to blow up different sections every few days and demonstrate to Putin that the whole project was a waste of time and resources.

    There's no point in doing that while the Kerch Bridge is still passable and there continues to be a Russian presence in Crimea that's still fairly functional. I reckon the Ukrainians will slowly push the military infrastructure there to breaking point, then wallop them in such a way that it's impossible for sufficient reinforcements to be delivered from "mainland Russia". At that stage, they won't need to fully re-take the territory - just put up Ukrainian flags in various places and make sure that anyone trying to take them down meets a friendly grenade carrying drone (they did something similar with the Terrikon waste heap).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    they just don’t learn, chip pans are dangerous on ships



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭weisses


    How is Crimea gonna fall? … they could only make small dent during last years summer offensive in the south



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    It is concieveable that Russia and NATO coild have a full on kinetic war and still the nukes wont be used.

    An interesting commentator from the US is Ryan McBeth claims, somewhat for illustration rather than for pure accuracy, that NATO and Russia are already at war, just not a hot war.

    A possible scenario would be that Russian troops are in the Baltics, and NATO aircraft attack non nuclear military targets in Russia, and neither side wants to use nukes. Based on what weve seen, Russia would lose badly, but it could happen.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Crimea isnt going to fall. Its going to be liberated



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    How did the Soviet Union fall? Or for that matter Iraq



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,437 ✭✭✭macraignil


    Report linked below that putin's air defense forces in Crimea are already giving in on trying to maintain their air defense systems there. They are being repeatedly targeted and so the lifespan of these essential weapons of putin's occupying force are increasingly short and this may indicate liberation of the area by Ukraine may be sooner than some might expect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Speaking of getting hot

    https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/2oyRtZPzaQ



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭weisses


    How is Crimea going to be liberated ?… they could only make small dent during last years summer offensive in the south



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭Field east


    two points about blowing up any supply line - be it bridge, railway, road, ferry or runway :-

    (1) it upsets and narrows the options that Ru has to supply the front lines - an obvious point

    (2) but mure importantly and because of one above there has to be a larger concentration of soldiers, equipment , supplies, tanks, etc beingtransported on the remaining supply lines. So when UKr is bombing the remaining supply lines it has a more ‘exciting’ targets re taking out supply lines along with soldiers , etc, being transported on such lines. I assume here that UKr wants to get as much ‘bang’ for it’s ‘buck’



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    There was a lot of sneering anytime anyone points out that russia is having both manpower and equipment supply issues

    But facts on ground speak for themselves, having run out of prisoners (article re BBC investigation on officially verified dead list jumping by 20k only few posts up)

    And with most latest meat wave assault videos being done not in tanks but golf carts and motorbikes

    The Russians decided to turn to human trafficking now

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-06-09/russia-ukraine-war-africans-forced-to-fight-and-die-for-the-kremlin


    Ukrainians will literally just drive in and be cheered on by locals as the Russian federation collapses into a civil war once Putin is dead and there literally is no succession process, a civil war between two dozen warlords, what’s left of the military, rosgvardia, kadyrites, various governors and whatever Wagner like private armies each oligarch collects, with likes of China doing same in far east reclaiming most of Siberia they lost and then some



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    All Eyes On Rafah



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,213 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Those train carried tankers sure do look like pretty fireworks!



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