Kilkenny GAA Thread

Jarlath Burns said this morning it was meant as 37 players and 16 of a backroom.

Think he was on Radio 1 this morning for the Tailteann Cup draw and I'm guessing it came up for discussion.

If Jarlath Burns believes Limerick's backroom staff comes to just 16, he's one naive individual.

Or more likely he's a 3-year President who wants comfortable non-controversial term and doesn’t want to grasp the hideous chasm in funding and resources that exist between counties in what is supposedly an amateur sport.

I would think given the huge money JP gave to the GAA two years ago, the appetite for any finger pointing at Limerick by GAA HQ is close to zero.

But sooner or later the GAA must grasp this massive issue and bring in some sort of equalisation process (senior team minimum and maximum budgets surely is something that can be implemented and adhered to).

Look at the lack of success Limerick and Dublin have had at minor and schools’ levels over the last 40 years (1 minor football and 1 school hurling between them). The AI club has been won just once in 53 years by a Limerick team. Yet we are all told to suck it up, they both just have a conveyor belt of great raw talent.

Pull the other one, they haven’t, what they have is a frigging well oiled, well-funded machine that turns a handful of good players into super fit and super drilled inter county players.

Or the even more ridiculous “everyone else must just raise their standard to the same level as Limerick and Dublin”

How? Pull tens of millions out of their holes?

Waterford had every bit as talented a group at minor and u21 as Limerick did 8-10 years ago and have won nothing.

Anyone thinking this is just a very talented bunch that Limerick are getting the most out of, essentially, their time in the sun, is likely to get a very rude awakening. Look at the seamless way they are introducing new players who didn’t set the world alight at underage, or turning journeymen players into serious intercounty hurlers

We were told the same thing with Dublin 4-5 years ago, and now with almost all their supposed generational talents retired, they’re still miles ahead of everyone despite very little underage success.

Open your eyes, this is an issue that won’t go away. Competing with a country that has a budget of maybe 10 times that of yours is total against the ethos of the GAA.

It is also dispiriting and demoralising and will lead to more and more senior inter county players stepping away.

If Limerick and Dublin have the best players, great, then let them operate off the same training budget as everyone else.

Waterford minor 2014 were also very strong, took Lim to replay in Munster final and us to xtime in semi. So they were at least a 2 year strong crop, and accept Limerick's was 3.

My point is there was little or nothing in terms of raw talent to seperate Lim and Waterford at minor 2012-2014, while most of the current all conquering Limerick team came from that group.

I think you are kinda proving my point, Limericks good crop walked in to a thoroughly professional and hugely well-funded set up, and thrived, Waterford didn’t, their players never reaching the same level of conditioning, never felt as valued, never had the same level of facilities or back up, because frankly, the cost of that was beyond the reach of Waterford. Whether Waterford could ever have reached Limericks current level if the roles were reversed (Waterford with a massive funding advantage), we will never know,

Look, my final word for now on it.

If Limerick or Dublin simply have a golden crop that is more talented than the rest, then there should be no problem with them agreeing to having all counties competing for the AI having largely the same budgets.

This Limerick team have the most competitive route to any team winning All Irelands and deserve great credit, Munster is a mindfield. Dublin footballers are excellent but the system is a joke and has has put me off football altogether, basically a walk through Leinster and all matches in Croke Park. Kilkenny's 5 in a row was unbelievable team but had an easy route to the All Ireland semi final every year and could peak for that. Limerick are well looked after but most top intercounty teams are well looked after too, if you go through the Kilkenny team nearly all the lads have the time and resources to put in the effort the Limerick players do.

I’m a massive admirer of this Limerick team and I’m not saying one team is better than the other but I would argue that our great team had much tougher opposition in their era.

The Cork and Tipp teams of that era were exceptional teams that managed to win a couple of All-Irelands of their own despite Kilkennys great side.

Cork were going for three in a row in 2006 and that Tipp team would have easily done back to back and more if KK weren’t around at the same time.

.Not forgetting a very good Waterford side with unbelievable players like Ken McGrath, Tony Browne, Paul Flynn etc… Galway and Clare were always competitive around that time also.

All these counties are struggling at the moment Todays Cork and Tipp are not even getting to Munster finals and often struggling to get out of Munster.

This Limerick team’s biggest rivals in Munster at the moment are a decent Clare team and outside of Munster an average Kilkenny team. Again that’s not Limerick’s fault and they may well have beaten all the great teams of the past but I certainly don’t think they have had tougher opposition than the great Kilkenny team .

I think that Cork team tailed off after 06 with strikes etc. Ye minced them in 08. Waterford probably got to the final past their peak which I think was 04-07, 07 was their best chance, they beat that very good Cork team after a replay and had their 3rd game in 14 days v Limerick in the semi final they would have been underdogs in that final but would almost certainly have troubled ye more than Limerick, worked with lads from Waterford who maintain if yourselves or Cork in that situation your county boards who have fought to get that semi final put back a week, they also felt goalie and full back was their Achilles heel at the time. Tipp were a rabble until Sheedy's 1st stint but they had a serious side from 2008 onwards.

Can’t really compare the two. Both teams changed the game. Kilkenny didn’t have the same tactical structure of this Limerick team but they definitely had the individuals who would have thrived in it. And Limerick’s structure would not work had they not had the quality of player to implement it.

Both teams mischaracterised in some ways. Kilkenny and intensity/physicality. Limerick and their system. Neither gets sufficient credit for the standard of hurler they produced in their time at the top. Tommy Walsh is still my favourite hurler. Tough as nails, hurled hard but holy fcuk could that man hurl. Even if you managed to match the physicality and intensity of that Kilkenny team you then had to overcome the fact that on top of that they also had the better hurlers.

And Tipp did match Kilkenny in terms of work rate from 2009. But Kilkenny’s superior quality of hurler is why they ultimately fairly comprehensively won that rivalry.

Steps, throwing of the ball and lads buying soft frees either by pulling an opponent's arm towards them to look like their been held, by putting their hands in the air to suggest a high tackle or barging into an opponent and then falling to the ground are all blights on the game. Every county is gulity of these in all honesty and anyone claiming my county isn't gulity of these but county A,B,C is are deluded in my opinion no matter where they're from.

Agreed, all teams do these things to varying extents now, but I don't think Limerick's role in making systematic throwing a feature of modern hurling or how it has contributed to Limerick's success should ever be forgotten.

Some people say that even if the throw was eliminated somehow, Limerick would still prevail and that may be so, but it does not change the fact that they have many times got a foothold in a tight game by dropping back and using their throwing triangles to work it through the opposition into a scoring position. It has literally helped them win tight games, even if 10% of their throws were penalized, the difference would be seen on the scoreboard. Their exceptional ball handling is often praised but the clear role that throwing has in this is mostly ignored

The fact that they have some absolutely exceptional players, in particular Hayes and Hegarty, or the fact that throwing is now the norm, doesn't mean that these things can't be pointed out.

Cork were going for three in a row in 06 and were regarded as an exceptional team at the time, they tailed off because that Kilkenny team ended their reign. I’ve heard it said lots of times that Waterford were stronger in 07 than 08 but nobody was saying that before the 08 final… this theory only came about after KK hammered them in the final.

You’re right about Tipp being an excellent team from 08 onwards, Kilkenny played them in six championship knockout matches six years in a row from 09 to 2014 winning five out of six. Kilkenny also won ten league titles under Brian Cody although two of them came after the “great team “ if you like, had finished playing.
They were a great team but they had to beat great teams on their journey.

Waterford weren’t going to trouble Kilkenny that much in 2007. Once Cork fell away post 2006 nobody troubled them until Liam Sheedy got Tipp ticking. For all the talk of how they had such a handy route to the AI series via a weaker provincial championship they weren’t that much more troubled by Munster teams or Galway than they were by their Leinster opponents.

Waterford were flattered by winning a fairly weak Munster championship in 2007. Very poor Tipp and Clare teams that year, Limerick were average and Cork were on the decline and more interested in off the pitch matters.

It gets forgotten just how far ahead Kilkenny were of everyone else before Tipp came to the table and eventually Galway too. They were untouchable for a spell.

They were good enough to get to a final beating Sheedys Tipp in the semi and were a very good team, Tony Browne, Shanahan, Flynn , McGrath , John Mullane etc…and as I said excellent Tipp and Cork teams so my point about the opposition still stands.

Well done to kk players and management last weekend. It mightn't mean much to a lot of people on the outside but it definitely means something for kk players and its when we arent in them or get bet in them we only appreciate it. For all the negative talk earlier in the year and talk of lads not committing etc alot of the panel and extended panel seem happy to be involved. Its good to see lads like denis walsh,stephen donnelly,ian byrne,peter macdonald,podge moylan,david fogarty,conor heary and newcomer marty murphy enjoying the celebrations. I would be hopeful after a few years around the setup some of these lads might kick on. Kk people wont get carried away and its later in the year these lads will be really judged but donnelly,mossy,cian kenny are really stepping up as leaders now and adding more consistency to their game. Mr forchange will be delighted to see players improving.

To be fair to kk they deserve a bit of credit the way they shut down the running game. They reviewed parnell park and got things right the 2nd day.They figured out wexford at half time the last day but mossy and tj drove wides they probably wont hit again to put that game to bed but Bigger test await to see have they something up their sleeves for the likes of limerick. Everything has to be taken into consideration and dublin downed tools early but puckouts were a bit better. I do worry about tommy corner back. Blanchfield is improving everyday he goes out. To be fair to Billy ryan he worked fierce hard. The 4 week break is a gift and we usually manage it well. I dont expect to see much at the open session tomor night but its great idea and great for young lads to get in and see their heros.

Limerick didnt have to be at their best to beat clare but i always felt they could up the gears if needed. Hegarty and hayes are unbelievable. Nicky quaid is absolutely vital to this limerick team. I see one of his puckouts sunday hegarty was out near the sideline and quaid hit a lovely ball into space so he could run onto it catch and over the bar. We are miles away from anything like that but this is the benchmark. I couldnt believe clare hit a mountain of route one ball instead of working the ball.

Offally continued the great season but laois will be kicking themselves with all the wides. A crucial and correct decision near the end the laois lad took a load of steps and it went up the field and offally scored but the match sunday teams could take as many steps as they wanted and get away with it.