Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XII (The Byrne Supremacy)

Sure. Still need to take the chance and 'shoot your shot', as they say on Love Island.

Harry was a huge prospect and it didn't work out. Decent player but not top tier. On to the next prospect. If in a few years it turns out Prendergast is decent but not good enough. Then that's fine too.

Leinster woukd really benefit from a top tier 10. They need to develop players until they find one. It's a slow process, but they need to plough ahead

he said Prendergast is trying to get into that tier, but has a ways to go.

Like it or not, Ross is currently our 10. My thoughts are he's extremely reliable and a leader. I believe he's got a very good rugby iq and is adept at sustaining a plan.

He's unlikely to run in a 50 meter try or dazzle defending players with steps and jinks. He's made the most of his ability and plays to a very high standard.

Harry on the other hand, is not a leader type player and sometimes looks as if he's zoned out. But Harry is better at playing flat and drawing in a defender. A better athlete who has not reached his peak yet. Next season, I expect more from Harry.

Sam P is a waiting talent. Fantastic prospect and looks like a potential star.

Sexton is retired and now irrelevant, the guy was a generational talent

My point is simple, you talk about Top Tier as some magical tier, but when I ask who is in this Tier you can't answer

As pointed out Ross has taken Leinster to two finals in a row, if he was playing for another club in France etc I have would bet Irish fans would have him in the Top Tier section. As I said in both recent games v Toulouse he was head to head v Ntamack and I would say he has come out better. I expect you will have Ntamack in this Top Tier?

Personally wouldn't take either Smith over Ross at the moment.

Smith might have 30 caps but name a single game he was effective at 10? his best game I seen for England was from 15

Not derailing the discussion about who is or isn't top tier. Waste of time.

Sounds like you're happy with Ross Byrne. I think leinster needs a better 10. I have used the term 'top tier' which could derail the discussion, so replace it with a 'better' player. It's less descriptive but I'm sure you could settle for that phrase.

I've also outlined the main issue that I think lets Ross down which is not threatening the defence which allows them to drift and more effectively defend the leinster attack. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I don't think Ross makes many mistakes or does anything poorly. It's what he doesn't do that's at issue. He doesn't bother the defence and the knock on effect is the backline has less space to work with.

If you're happy with Byrne, that's fine. I think a team that wants to win championships needs a 'better' 10.

You see the last statement is the issue, it's not Ross fault Leinster lost the last 4 finals. Not any of them. In reality Sexton error in Montpellier was the biggest factor in a lost game between all of them.

have we won finals with Ross at 10? yes multiples

Is Ross better than some of the 10's who have won in Europe? in my opinion yes. Just look at West for La Rochelle, R Byrne is a far superior player.

Do you think West is a "top tier" just because he has a European trophy in his back pocket?

That's a big game for him. Not sure he has ever been involved in a top tier test match even as an assistant? Think he got a last 16 Challenge Cup game this season and that was it for him in Europe. Surprising appointment.

You really want to go down a side track of discussing who is and isn't top tier. Does it matter how many times I say I'm not interested in that diversion? Seems not.

Sounds like you're happy with Ross Byrne. I think leinster needs a better 10

Sorry when you say Ross has won multiple finals at 10? You mean the 2020 and 2021 URC covid interrupted finals right?

He has started for the last 2 champions cup finals that Leinster lost and the semi final loss to Rochelle in 2021.

He had a poor showing off the bench in 22 final too.

Also Ross started v the Bulls in 2022 URC loss.

He is obviously not the only reason leinster lost. But is a position that other teams target. Teams will always target the 10 obviously but his lack of athleticism means that he is not a running threat.

When Leinsters set piece work well he can organise the backs and pull off great set piece first phase plays..

But when the game breaks down and gets scrappy like most finals do and maybe leinster aren't winning lineout as cleanly or scrums and he is on the back foot his game can be got at and it's easier of defences to get after him because they known his game becomes more one dimensional

You do realise the same can be said of every 10 in the World, if the forwards start to lose control and overpowered the 10 is not going to be able to change that

I would say Leinster wanted to give him less time last season than he'd got the season before that. Why else would they have signed Jenkins when they already had Ryan and Molony as starters? It's no coincidence McCarthy's breakout season came in in the time between Fardy finishing up and Jenkins being recruited. McCarthy went from benching in the European Final in 2022 to out of the squad for the equivalent game in 2023 because they signed Jenkins.

Thankfully Andy Farrell brought him into Irish squads and accelerated his development that way.