Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Never? We'll see.

So the answer is, yes. Yes, you are trying to justify the massacre of civilians.

Incidental? Christ almighty that's some incidentality…. 274 civilians, 60 odd of whom were children. When you demean them like that of course they can just be shrugged off a collateral damage.

The IDF are either completely incompetent or have been thought to be genocidal in nature. I'd actually say probably a combination of both seem as they seem to have killed more of their own hostages than they've actually rescued.

Well I suppose thankfully then Israel and the US are obliging and making them martyrs. Where would they be without them. I mean otherwise he'd have to go in and slaughter his own citizens himself.

https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1799980256419578222

You do understand Sinwar's POV right? It's not that they want kids to have their limbs blown off or to be fishing body parts from under buildings. Its because every single government and international body has forgotten them for the simple reason that as Noam Chomsky has alluded to, they have nothing to offer. They have no money, no power, no standing in the international arena. I mean why would Hamas, an organisation which has its roots as a charity resort to arms. Perhaps because they've been routinely slaughtered in Gaza.

If Israel really wanted to eliminate Hamas, they'd actually do something for the Gazans, rather than just running a recruitment drive for them. Then again that suits their end goal of cleansing Gaza. They don't want rid of Hamas. They need Hamas to continue doing what they are doing.

You jest but Sinwar isn't called The Butcher of Khan Yunis by his own people for nothing! Hiding militants behind women and among hospitals and schools and keeping hostages in family homes and children's bedrooms took some doing perhaps in the beginning but he finally got his own people exactly where he wanted them. Stooges and pawns condemned to a life of misery while he and Haniyih spent billions of incoming support not on their comfort, education and advancement but on seeking to impose an Islamist state on the whole region. And sure people under such regimes are free and happy?

"I mean why would Hamas, an organisation which has its roots as a charity resort to arms."

Roots in charity? Try The Muslim Brotherhood, not a nice bunch of lads at all at all. I'll leave you to it.

Yes. Some posters won't admit it but the likes of Bibi and Sinwar have a lot in common. The primary thing they seem to have in common is they are both psychopaths who crave power above all.

for the ethnic cleansing. They aren’t even all that coy about it. Hell even a few people in the thread parroting their talking points about dislocating Palestinians into the desert so Israel can have a one state solution.

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/11/05/palestinians-should-go-to-ireland-or-deserts-and-using-nuclear-bomb-on-gaza-an-option-says-israeli-minister/

And some Americans

https://thehill.com/policy/international/4542516-kushner-gazans-moved-israeli-desert/damp/?nxs-test=damp

So if you acknowledge their only course of action is resistance, the question is why in an asymmetric power dynamic, this is the form of resistance they take. Probably because its the only one they can. When a small force is resisting a larger one, they don't get to choose their battle ground, its not soldier against soldier, its soldier against civilian, its drone against soldier. Why would someone put a target on their back to be taken out by a remote operator in Tel Aviv, or wherever Israel fire their rockets from. How in a strip of land which is 7.5miles x 25miles wide do they protect civilians when Israel choose to fire on where they told those civilians to go.

It's honestly not a very interesting question. Irish Republicans used guerrilla warfare against the British, disappearing among the civilian population. At the very least the British didn't spray bullets into crowds in retaliation, well normally anyway. The question you should be asking is why Israel feels its OK to completely ignore any sort of rules of engagement. Why tell people that a particular zone is safe only to then go and bomb there? Why do the US and UK who pride themselves with their military propaganda (see Eye in the Sky) on how they do everything in their power to minimize civilian casualties see fit to defend the most moral army in the world who use AI to select targets to maximize civilian casualties.

It's a fair point when you have to hold up the Black and Tans as an example of a more moral force than the IDF. Same is true of South Africa, I listened to a talk yesterday (edit: Archbishop Desmund Tutu) that the apartheid of SA was paled in comparison to the apartheid of Israel, and that was years ago.

John Mearsheimer has said that Israel relies on escalation dominance to dissuade aggression. You hit us, we hit you harder. You kill one Israeli, we'll kill 1000 of you. Rabbi Yaacov Perrin with his, "1 million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."

This plays through in Israeli society. The issue is not Netanyahu, he's the face of the regime but he's centre compared to other members of the Knesset. It's part of the Israeli psyche. Something like 60% support no aid getting through, 2% think too much force is being used, etc, etc.

What happened on October 7th, wasn't resistance - it was an attack, apparently calculated by Hamas to ensure maximum casualties on their side. This is the one thing they've succeeded at. I note no condemnation of Hamas in anything you've posted. Feel free to link to an earlier post I might've missed.

Israel has attacked and Hamas has counter-attacked. Both might be guilty of war crimes. However, none of this need continue should Hamas return hostages and stop shooting rockets over the border.

As for the whining we see on this thread about 'why don't they do …' It's war. It's messy. Return the hostages and stop shooting rockets and the fighting will cease.