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BusConnects Dublin - Bus Network Changes Discussion

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    #12362
    DaBluBoi
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭DaBluBoi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240930#Comment_122240930

    So will phase 6B include O orbital then?



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    #12363
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,918 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240950#Comment_122240950

    that'll be in 6A-2(a)



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    #12364
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122240930#Comment_122240930

    Presumably phase 6A will be the E Spine and N2 and phase 6B will be the O route.

    Nothing any more complicated than that.



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    #12365
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,469 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    There is some good news and bad news about the L25 & S8 this evening.

    The good news regarding the L25 is that the real time info for the route has finally been added onto a bus stop which is located in Annaville Terrace; Blackrock. The bus stop which has the information added into the system is bus stop no. 7421. It displays the real time info for the L25 from Dundrum to Dún Laoghaire Dart Station along with the 7B & 7D.

    I looked at the TFI Live app on my phone and it's now added into the system which probably happened sometime earlier this week. It took an awfully long time to get that info added into the stop. The L25 was launched with the Southern Orbitals back in late November. It took TFI 7 & half months later to add it into the system for that particular bus stop. What a joke.

    Why the hell did TFI take so long to get this issue eventually resolved for bus passengers who wanted to view the live timetable for the service? Did other bus routes rolled out previously for BusConnects Dublin suffer from that similar issue?

    The bad news concerning the S8 is that there was one bus cancelled each way on the route this evening.



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    #12366
    Highlighter75
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75


    Hhe S6 is a big improvement on the old 17 service.



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    #12367
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122247609#Comment_122247609

    I should hope so it's a 15 minute frequency compared to 17s 20/30 minute frequncy



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    #12368
    Highlighter75
    Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248369#Comment_122248369

    More importantly, it turns up. Very few ghost buses disappearing without a trace.



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    #12369
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭john boye


    You can't move for S4s around Terenure and Kimmage these days. Frequency might be a bit high if anything, especially off-peak.



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    #12370
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    A good contender to replace the capacity of the VTs. Oh of course not that would be logical and sensible and we're talking about the NTA here they aren't into that kind of thing.

    https://x.com/ADLbus/status/1800089647311196544?t=usGI4H3h3k679lH2slF3BA&s=19



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    #12371
    alentejo
    Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭alentejo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248448#Comment_122248448

    Disagree with this. If anything, its frequent buses is the key which might make people give up the car.



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    #12372
    The Mathematician
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭The Mathematician


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248893#Comment_122248893

    Yes, frequency is very important, especially when you are changing (either from another bus or from the Luas), and I suspect a lot of custom on the S4 will be of this kind. I also think it is far too early to make a decision in any case. It will probably take a couple of years for patronage to fully build up. We can reassess then if necessary.



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    #12373
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Also, for a route of the length of the S4, you have to examine loadings all along the route and not just at certain points.

    It has only existed for almost 6 months. It does take time for people to figure out alternative routes and for custom to build up.

    The S4 is very much a route that people will interconnect with, be it with the LUAS at Milltown and Kylemore, or with the various Spines along the way, as well as making combinations of short and long journeys.

    Frequency is key for the orbitals to deliver effective connections.



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    #12374
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭john boye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122248893#Comment_122248893

    Wasn't saying it should be reduced, more that we saw the N4 reduced after a few months and I could see the same happening here.



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    #12375
    jd
    Registered Users Posts: 5,698 ✭✭✭jd


    Boots on the ground in Northwood for the E1 terminus. There will be enough space for two buses.

    https://twitter.com/highnellybike/status/1800818615983513888?t=o6WUMQ6HOFf3O4wZuEmCmw&s=19

    Post edited by jd on


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    #12376
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249786#Comment_122249786

    That was a case of not enough people using it - you have to look at the entire S4 route and not just Terenure to see the loadings.



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    #12377
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249862#Comment_122249862

    They'd need space for more buses than just two. Not uncommon to see 5 or 6 buses at a terminus on a high frequency route

    Post edited by mikeybhoy on


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    #12378
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭john boye


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122249989#Comment_122249989

    I've got the route plenty and seen it all over. I know how busy it can get at peak times. I also didn't say the buses are necessarily quiet in Terenure. The fact that they've put extra departures on at peak times says enough. It's a different story after 8pm though



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    #12379
    bikeman1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    I'll just chime in on the N4. It is very well used and does lots of business connecting up all the major routes out of the city along Collins Ave. some for a quick hop between the main spinal roads eg. Malahide to Swords Rd.

    The timings may be less than at the start, but the timetable and running was completely off with buses down to overtake or bunch up very close or have long waits at DCU. That has all been tidied up and the current set up of buses every 10 minutes during the day and running through the night is great.

    A colleague mentioned how he tried out an N4 to Swords Rd and a 41 to the airport the other week at 05:00 and it worked perfectly. €2 versus €25 in taxi. He was delighted at my suggestion.



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    #12380
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122251040#Comment_122251040

    The N4 and N6 were both reduced in frequency to every 12 mins during the day from every 10 mins at the end of January 2023. That’s the point being made above.

    Still, the DB website has still not been updated for this.



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    #12381
    Midnight_EG
    Registered Users Posts: 9,706 ✭✭✭Midnight_EG


    E-Spine put back to late October



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    #12382
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122253908#Comment_122253908

    are O and N2 also put back?

    I'm not too fussed about any of the spines really, they're nothing new per say, it's frequent orbitals that are the game changer and the few BusConnects cross city routes that don't go to OCS. Yesterday I spend 1.5hrs travelling by bus from Kilmainham to Finglas, when I arrived I found that I could have walked a little faster, thanks largely to every single bus in Dublin crossing OC Bridge, which is nowhere near the desire line of my origin to destination.

    The spines are the disappointing part of BusConnects, the H needs to go to Heuston and the F or E needs to use Church St/Christchurch instead of OCS. And of course they could have spared us the frequency-fantasy, double deckers every 3 minutes consistently on normal roads with frequent at grade junctions :-) they must think we came down with the last load. Even the luas can't provide that kind of frequency consistently.



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    #12383
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,805 ✭✭✭thomasj


    If we're saying that the reduction of the N4 at times from 10 minutes to 12 minutes is down to passenger numbers , can we say that the decision to run every 12 minutes up to 10pm at night (more frequent than the 15, 39A, 46A , 27 etc) would also be down to passenger numbers?



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    #12384
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254013#Comment_122254013

    True but the spines will mean more 24hr routes. The N11 corridor has been an obvious contender for 24hr service since they were announced.



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    #12385
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254260#Comment_122254260

    It may well also have been a driver resources issue as well.

    As for the frequency in the evening - that’s down to the BusConnects plan and the fact that it is implemented in phases.

    The routes you quote are in later phases and haven’t benefitted yet.



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    #12386
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,715 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254321#Comment_122254321

    I don’t think that the N11 is any more important than the other spines to be fair - they are all deserving of the night time service.



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    #12387
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,924 ✭✭✭trellheim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254013#Comment_122254013

    I've seen no electric single deckers on the NCR or around Heuston, or any infra works to enable it, so I can't see the O launching soon . N2 could launch on its own without infra for most of it if you make it dogleg round Rory O More bridge on the inbound . are there stops gone up on ballyboggan road yet ?

    reminds me I can't see single deckers working out on a 46a frequency table. I was up early the other day and was watching packed inbound 46as while I walked down NCR from 0645 onwards . and the interchanges for them - 39a (already packed) and the either phibsboro stop - will be taken with buses with a lot of people on them.



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    #12388
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254356#Comment_122254356

    True but it is the one missing piece in the jigsaw since the other 24hr corridors have been launched. Not much 24hr service on the southside in general bar the 15 it's been nearly all focused on the northside and the west of the city.

    Considering the length of the corridor aswell and it's a good 50€ for a taxi to Bray.

    I'm not sure why there's been so many delays to the implementation of spines as of late. As from what I've heard the driver shortage is not as big an issue as it was a year ago.



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    #12389
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I often defend the NTA, but they have screwed the rollout of the BusConnects route changes badly. Originally all these changes were supposed to be done quickly, like in a few months, instead it is dragging on for years and that is without the infrastructure side.

    Had they known up front it would take so long, I would have changed the phasing to look like this.

    • Phase 1, roll out the short fare on all existing routes, with a fare calculator in the NTA app.
    • Phase 2, roll out all the orbital routes
    • Phase 3, roll out night bus services on all corridors with the existing bus routes, like they did with the 41 etc. before BusConnects started
    • Phase 4, start working on the spinal routes re-organisation.

    I believe it is complete bollocks to rollout things like short fares and 24 hour routes until each route is done, leaving people missing out on these for years.

    Imagine for the moment they only rolled out the 90 minute fare like this! They should at least roll out the short fare to all routes today and actually allow you to figure it out in the app (or drop it completely).



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    #12390
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,515 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254321#Comment_122254321

    true, 24hr running is one positive of the spines and it is a simplified numbering system and timetabling. In any case rolling out the orbitals first was way more important than restructuring the routes into spines, which for most end users will only end up being a change of the route number, compared to the actual tangible benefit of not getting dragged to OCS for every single journey. The other question is why did they focus on implementing the outer orbitals well ahead of the more desperately needed inner ones? They could at least be building the small pieces infrastructure to allow them to run.



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    #12391
    mikeybhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭mikeybhoy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122254773#Comment_122254773

    I agree with all of what you're I wouldn't be to worried about the short fare though it's not that useful to most bus users compared to the 90 minute fare. Also it is available just using the old stage system on the non bus connected routes.

    Also how does the short fare work if you make another journey within 90 mins. Say you pay the short fare and decide to do another journey then are you only charged the extra 60c or do you have to pay the full €1.30 short fare or the €2 90 min fare. If the later not great for the short fare at all as you're paying more than would if you just paid the 90 minute fare in the first place.

    Also if fares have to be increased in years to come due to budget constraints. I would much rather they'd just scrap the short fare altogether as opposed to increasing the 90 minute fare.



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