Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

still stuck on repeat huh. Congress appropriated those weapons. POTUS has to faithfully execute the law. Ukraine needed aid. You know all of this but pretend not to. The same package also included billions of dollars of humanitarian relief for Gaza, and military aid for Taiwan. Perhaps you’d rather have seen Ukraine fall to Russia.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-ukraine-aid-tiktok-senate-8fe738b17e5c4b2636bc0de11b2620b7#

Possibly, what's your point?

That because Hamas might be there everyone is fair game? Would the British have been right to go around shooting civilians because they might have been IRA?

Few facts, prior to October 7th, Israel had killed 234 Palestinians in 2023. Again during a so-called ceasefire. Where was western media's outrage at that? Israel has thousands of Palestinian hostages, again held from well before October 7th. Where is western media's outrage to have them returned?

Hamas have committed war crimes. That's known. Not all the ones that were reported and never retracted but they have committed them and I support the ICC's investigation of them and prosecution of the leadership of Hamas should they be arrested and tried. A war crime is a war crime, regardless of who committed it. Hamas are not guilty of ethnic cleansing and genocide however. Israel are and the west are complicit. Even Piers Morgan has stopped with the "do you condemn Hamas for October 7th".

Do you support Israel returning hostages they've captured? How about being tried for genocide and war crimes? What about land they've annexed which is illegal under international law?

Should IDF soldiers avoid public spaces in Israel now that they are at war? Like that is your argument, right? Civilians can be killed due to the irresponsible placement of their country's soldiers? That Hamas can bomb anywhere as long as they kill a member of the IDF?

So, no condemnation of Hamas for their actions on 7 October from you. Unlike you, I don't take direction from Piers Morgan.

As for returning 'hostages', including the ones convicted of murder? Those, too?

I believe there should be trials for crimes across the board. Do you? Sinwar on trial?

This is a genuine questions as I can't remember. Have you condemned Israel's actions pre-October 7th, and have you condemned their war crimes since?

I suspect it depends on who the civilians are for Mark Miĺler. Mark Regev stated he wouldn't support a 2,000 pound bomb being dropped in a residential area of Tel Aviv to target Hamas fighters. "We would find another way"

The only conclusion to be drawn is that's because Israeli lives matter more than Palestinians. This is why the recent rescue operation would likely draw criticism if it had been 100 Israeli civilians that were killed during a rescue operation.

I have more than a shred. That wasn't the question I answered though, and as you know I've been on here discussing Oct 7 since it happened.

Just to clear things up.

If Hamas are hiding amoungst civilians, it's a war crime.

If Israel bomb hamas whilst Hamas are hiding amoungst civilians, it's a war crime.

Hamas have, and still are committing war crimes. Israel have, and still are committing war crimes.

I personally condemn both groups for their atrocities.

Someone bringing up the North brought the priest Alec Reid to mind, the one who commenced the hard slog towards peace and how he said the only side he was on was on the side of the next person to be killed.

If you believe trials and convictions are the way forward, you must have an issue with Mossad's nine-year campaign to detail the ICC from prosecuting Israel for war crimes.

Do UN investigations carry any sway or do you determine everything by court case? Have you formed opinions on Hamas's war crimes without court cases?

Back again to enlighten us all with your shrewd analyses. Hiding behind civilians isn't an excuse to kill those civilians, as had been stated above. I think it was pointed out to you before, but regardless, the Hamas Health Ministry's statistics are generally accepted as being accurate. The fact that Israel don't contradict them at any opportunity probably tells most people what they need to know about them, plus it also shows that the IDF don't seem to bother counting the numbers they kill. Throwing out casual accusations of anti-Semitism isn't analysis either.

Really odd it seems in turn Israel changes the ceasefire plan, now Hamas. Hopefully that means they are closer to a plan that can be agreed by both sides.

Incidental killing of civilians in war is not criminal - it has also happened in British and American airstrikes that were aimed at ISIS. Hamas was in control of all of the Gaza Strip on Oct 7 and was thus responsible for the welfare of civilians in the Strip. I guess you'd expect that, if WW3 breaks out and Russia fires a nuclear missile that destroys a city in a NATO member state, NATO would not fire one in response.

As for the Gazan health ministry's casualty numbers, there's no indication that Israel ever accepted them in this war or any previous war. The numbers have not been proven. Healthcare workers in Gaza could be either under duress by Hamas or are sympathisers with Hamas. For example, Dr Ghassan Abu Sittah is not allowed to enter the EU.

Ah. Another who believes the world according to Israel only started on October 7th even though they've just celebrated their 76th birthday. Getting remarkably close to that cursed 8th decade.

Funny you'd call into question the Gazan health ministry figures given that even Israel have relied on them. But you're right I'd be reluctant to believe them also, they have been stuck on 35k for well over a month now.

Regarding the hostages, no I think they should have been returned to their families. Why would Bibi have turned down multiple opportunities to get them back? We know the going rate for Arabs is ~1027 to 1.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit_prisoner_exchange

Who knows, maybe the Israelies didn't have enough in the bank? Maybe inflation had kicked in?
Given that prisoner swaps and ceasfires are the most reliable form of hostage return, why would the Israelis have been so against them?

So tell me. Is 68.5 dead Palastinians for each returned hostage a good ratio?