Why don't the Labour Party and the Social Democrats merge?

Who said anything about not wanting to be in government? I said it would be detrimental to a person on the left of centre to have their only option go into government and drift to the centre.

There is in fact precedent for this, with the democratic left and labour merging and then labour drifting towards the centre with the coalition of fg.

As its set up now, the two parties can in theory go into coalition being a junior party, and even if the party drifts towards the centre or left, the other party can stick to its principles.

I don't see any advantage to merging the parties if its not to try be a senior party in government, and based on the figures you suggested they wouldn't be.

History would beg to differ on this, everytime Labour has got to a certain size and gone into government as a junior party, they have made compromises and drifted to the centre, lost their core support and had to start rebuilding. On top of that, the merger with the democratic left in the 90's meant there was no viable alternative and we stay locked in our own version of a two party system. This cycle has been happening for the greens in part for the past 20 years too.

I really can't see any advantages at all for labour to merge with SD and they end up with 20 seats and go into government and have to compromise on their core principles. This in turn loses their core and they have to rebuild again. And alternatively if either wanted to govern and went in as the junior party, what is the advantage of being 20 as opposed to 12 or 10 seats? In fact let's go the full hog and say ff needed both SD and Labour to create a government, but they are negotiating with two separate parties, as opposed one twenty seat party, the power dynamic is now much more with the left parties than ff, and more compromises would have to be made by ff dealing with the two of them.

The only reason i can see anyone wanting them to merge is so that they are easier to push down again. Get Labour caught back in the two party trap they keep getting caught in, and bring the SD's down with them.

Choice is the strength of our system, and taking choice away from the public for the chance to have slightly higher seats in the next election and potentially being a junior party that has to compromise and lose their base, sounded good in the past, but history has proven otherwise

Soc Dems appear to have no money - Gibney apparently had to sell her car to fund her Euro run and is 20k in a hole according to the Irish Times.

No you keep creating this strawman argument of B because its the only argument you have. I explained clearly in my past posts the strengths of staying separate and growing, hopefully to a point where one if not both could be a senior party in government. You reverted back to the "get back in line, once you reach a certain size you go in as a junior party, compromise and revert back to where I want you, we have a two party system here don't you know"

I even created a scenario where both parties stayed separate and went into government as both junior parties but with better collective bargaining, surely you can see the advantages to that?

The notion that neither party wants to govern is laughable, to the point of making any argument come across as biased. Soc Dems don't even exist 10 years, and Labour have been in government twice in the past 30 years.

They do want to govern, just not on the terms you want them to

I'd take that with a pinch of salt, she's a fairly prolific player in the NGO industrial complex and there is oceans of money in that sea

Holly Cairns keeps going on the difference between social democrats and Labour is “the internal culture of how we do politics”.

Wow just wow!

Did none of the soc dem TDs think to support their EU candidate at the RDS the last few days.

Gary gannon was there briefly way before she was left all alone. Nobody else. She was left alone like a lemon.

Its an overwhelming moment. And in that count there’s dozens of cameras on you as you’re eliminated. You’re very exposed and have to walk through all those cameras and journalists to get out. There isn’t anywhere to hide.

They cruelly left her on her own apart from one or two people.

She should have had people with her. There should have at least been a press person there to talk her through and prep her before the announcement. Something. And all their TDs sitting back in Leinster House.

Cruel cruel party.

That's an opinion, and a weak one at that. Especially looking at history which is all we can do. Where parties that have gone into government with a minority of similarly sized to what you are describing, have consistently wiped out after.

History would beg to differ, with your very weak opinion with no evidence of success

Her name is out there now, likely will run in GE next.

You mean the same green party that went into government with 7 seats. As in the exact number that I said would be suffice for either Labour or SD to go into government as a junior party. And you said need "a merged entity has more bargaining power".

So is 7 enough or do you need more? And if so what's your point because you've got very muddled and unclear.

The only thing that seems to be clear is you want them to merge so they are easier to deal with, other than that you are bending and twisting your logic to fit your very obvious agenda