Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

No Shannon based pilots these days. I imagine considering how utterly unanimous the last one was this is basically a formality, a few people out sick aren't going to.sway the results

I can see some benefit to IALPA having the result turned around Monday…

On the other side some of the commentary from them suggest work to to rule over strike is likely the next step.

Both sides use any excuses.

IALPA were under no pressure to conduct a ballot so could have did a paper one from the start.

Perhaps it was part of there game plan.

Lynne has been completely AWOL throughout the entire process thus far. I believe she travelled to London the same evening the ballot result was announced, probably to IAG HQ.

Honestly, and I mean this with the greatest of respect to the previous poster, but I think it is unfair to view any recommendation from the Labour Court as a “half baked attempt to avert strike action at peak season”. They are professionals in their role and they called it as they saw it. I think their recommendation is a reflection of the current impasse between pilots and their employer. Unfortunately, we have arrived at the end of the road in terms of negotiations and we are going to see just how much each party to the negotiation is willing to go to achieve their aims.

In the past and by this I mean prior to IAG ownership, I sense that the pilots had a lot of power in negotiations. However, the world has changed and I fear that IAG might be much more reluctant to give in to the pilots demands compared to previous owners. At the end of the day, I can’t see the pilots achieving all of their salary aims. It could get messy over the next few months. I hope not, as my family and I are booked to MCO in July. I am now looking at alternatives.

I respect pilots and can appreciate that they feel their current salaries are unfair. I lurk here and keep as up to date with the industry as a lay person can and love when current & ex pilots tell stories about flights they have taken over the years.

However, as a parent who has spent 12 months saving every penny possible for a family holiday that is now 10 days away I am pissed off. I understand why they would choose to do it now in the height of the busiest season but as an outsider I can tell you they aren't going to garner any sympathy from customers IF they cause delays & cancellations. There probably isn't going to be a winner between IALPA and IAG because neither side will be happy with whatever compromise is finally agreed to, but the biggest losers could end up being families like mine who miss out on their long planned holidays and don't have the money or capacity to take more time off work later in the summer to book a new holiday.

Probably true. We seem to live in a world where senior management and shareholders can make off like bandits. But when tax paying workers try to assert their value they are denigrated. Probably not much the pilots can do about that to be honest.

Out of interest and transparency.

What is the beginning and average salary for an Aer Lingus pilot?

Was discussing it last night with someone who works in maintenance and they said thought starting as a first officer is around €90k working up to a captain starting at around €130k and there’s allowances on top of this. I see online estimates are from €60k to €165k from entrant to 20 years of service.

Is that true? Because a 24% (pretax) increase in that is €14k (at €60k) to €21k (at €90k) right up to €31k (at €130k) to €70k (€165k).

They’re some big increases at the higher end of the scale in a country where the average income is €38k a year.

Gonna be some really pissed off members of the public if they miss as much of a single day of their annual holiday because someone doesn’t think €60k+ is enough money to earn.

The labour court recommendation makes interesting reading:

RECOMMENDATION:
This matter comes before the Court following the failure of the parties to find agreement with the assistance of an independent mediator and the rejection by the Trade Union of a recommendation of the parties’ Pilot Pay Tribunal (PPT). The PPT has been the tribunal through which the parties have resolved pay round issues for many years.

Following the rejection by the Trade Union of the recommendations of the PPT, the matter was referred to the Conciliation Service of the Workplace Relations Commission and ultimately by way of a joint referral to the Labour Court. It is not clear that any progress at all was achieved at conciliation despite the best efforts of the WRC.

The background to the matter includes the fact that three-year pay round agreements have been reached between the employer and all other collectively bargained groups in the employment. Those agreements have provided for pay increase as follows:

2% with effect from 1st January 2023,

1.75% with effect from 1st July 2023

2% with effect from 1st October 2023

3.5% with effect from 1st January 2024

3% with effect from 1st January 2025.

Total percentage pay increase in the period – 12.25% 

Plus: A non-consolidated payment equivalent to 1.5% of pay is provided for in October 2024

The claim now before the Court is a claim for a pay increase of

7% with effect from 1st November 2022

6% with effect from 1st March 2023

6.1% with effect from 1st March 2024

4.7% with effect from 1st March 2025

Total percentage pay increase in the period – 23.8%

The matters before the Court additionally concern:

1. Disputation as regards the operation and funding model which form a ‘crewing agreement’ concluded between the parties in October 2019.
2. Disputation as regards engagement in relation to potential increases in the value of overnight allowances.
3. Disputation as regards the structure of pilot pay scales. The changes in scales agreed by the parties in 2021 and implemented in 2022 remain the status quo pending any agreed alteration to that agreement.

The parties before the Court have a long history of constructive engagement and have demonstrated a capacity to achieve collective agreement between them on matters giving rise to disputation over many years. It is a matter of concern to the Court that the extensive engagement between the parties in relation to the matters now before the Court has not resulted in any discernible indication of understanding by the parties that the resolution of the trade dispute will require the exercise of pragmatism, realism and common sense in order to identify a position that has the potential to be accepted by both.

The emphasis of the submissions made by the parties to the Court has been to highlight the significant difference between the parties as regards almost all matters in dispute.

The Court notes the concern of the Trade Union to relate itself to pilot employees of other airlines across Europe and the group within which Aer Lingus is situated. The Court also notes that the employer maintains a collective relationship with a range of Trade Unions representing various categories of staff, including this Trade union representing another category of worker, with whom it has concluded pay agreements which are current.

In all of the circumstances the Court recommends as follows:

1. That the parties recognise that the scope of the agreement which they have been pursuing through various fora from December 2022 is beyond their capacity at this time, and that the continuing failure to secure comprehensive agreement has the potential to become a point of dispute in itself.
2. That a fresh and stabilising approach is required which would allow continuing dialogue against a reasonable platform of wage growth across the period to date.
3. That, in order to create that stabilising platform, and recognising the fact that parties have not resolved the matter of their dispute relating to the operation and funding of their crewing agreement, the following measures be agreed as an interim resolution:
   • The crewing agreement involves changes to leave rosters and associated arrangements. The parties agreed that a ‘debt’ arises as a result of the implementation of that agreement which is to be discharged in the context of pay increases over time.

This interim Recommendation is based on the implementation of the pay increases set out below without an adjustment to implement the ‘debt’ discharge arrangements against pay increases recommended up to and including 1st January 2024.

The matter of the ‘debt’ arising from the implementation of the crewing agreement, and any adjustment to the structure of that agreement, should form part of the final agreement on the matters currently in dispute.

• The implementation of the following increases in pay:
  • 2% with effect from 1st January 2023,
  • 1.75% with effect from 1st July 2023
  • 2% with effect from 1st October 2023
  • 3.5% with effect from 1st January 2024
• The continuation of engagement, with the assistance of the WRC, on all matters in dispute with a view to reaching overall agreement. That engagement to be concluded by the end of August 2024. In the event of a failure to find overall agreement with the assistance of the WRC, outstanding matters to be referred again to the Court for a final and definitive recommendation. Insofar as the matter of overnight expenses is concerned, any further referral of the matter to the Court should be accompanied by a joint outline of any relevant consideration of Revenue rules in relation to the matter.

 The Court so recommends.

As memory serves me correctly, there never has been any serious public support for pilots or cabin crew alike when it comes to strike action.

Cabin crew gave again and again and again and were still treated like dirt. When they tried to garner public support it never happened and so many people went with the "aren't you lucky to have a job" line!

Flying life is still seen as a glamorous life and the reality is that its still a job with long hours and somewhat low pay.

Yes, I don't think many people here have referred to the actual report. Reading between the lines (which isn't hard), the Court is saying that the dispute can only be solved if the parties on both sides will accept that pragmatism and compromise is required. That's stating the obvious from an IR point of view.

Does someone on the average wage in this country have to pay the equivalent of the often excessive cost of becoming a pilot in order to get into their chosen line of work?

very interesting facts - thanks and the figures for pilot salaries are much lower than I would have expected. I think looking for 45 million per year, from a company that makes 200 million a year seems high, but I do appreciate the history.

Out of curiosity what are the starting salaries at FR? And what is the average pilot salary at Aer Lingus?

Ultimately something will be sorted but I think we are in for a bumpy ride and can’t see how a full strike is avoided.

If pilots took a work to rule would that leave people in a worse position as flight could be cancelled on the day because a member of the flight team are unable to fly? Or if some sort of strike action is taken where they fly 50% of flights who decides what routes fly?