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Incompetent work colleague on higher salary than me

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13

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    #62
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263523#Comment_122263523

    Over 40+ years I have seen this kind of thing go very badly for people how thought they could set management straight… most often they have talked themselves out of a job without realising it.

    If you came to me with that attitude I'd tell you that it was none of your business and if you did not like your salary there's the door…. and your next move would be????

    As I have said before you really should concentrate on what is important to you and concentrate on that. If you don't really care about your job and want to burn your bridges then you are definitely going about it the right way.



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    #63
    tohaltuwi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    your colleague, OP, sounds like one or two public service managers I had who were paid vastly more than I and basically were unable to learn even the basics of IT. Very very frustrating.



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    #64
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263624#Comment_122263624

    They don't do performance reviews where I work but I have never had any negative feedback in my seven years there. I can't find out if my salary is in line with the market rates because I can't go into google and search for my job title because I don't have a proper job title like "line manager" or something like that. I have been underpaid all along because I don't know what I should be paid. I just know now that it isn't enough based upon this joker's salary.



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    #65
    o1s1n
    Registered Users Posts: 35,003 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263523#Comment_122263523

    Honestly if I was your manager and you said that to me I'd be looking to show you the door. You come across as extremely bitter and petty.

    Be careful with how you proceed here. Honestly 7 years in the same job is a long time in the modern working world and you'll fall behind salary wise due to inflation either way. Time to move on and find something new with all the experience you now have on your CV.



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    #66
    Classic21
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭Classic21


    OP when did you realise that the colleague you trained was not able to do the job?

    Did you confirm if he was capable of doing the task as part of your training?

    Be careful how you escalate this to your manager as he may turn it back on you for doing a bad job with the training. If you did not highlight that this person was not capable prior to their probation period being over (I assume six months probation), are you as culpable as anyone else for this person being still employed?


    Just on looking for a raise, this should be a process ending at your review not starting at it. A lot of companies have raises set out when budgets are created so too late asking at your review. Get in your managers ear when budgets are being decided



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    #67
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264188#Comment_122264188

    I realised a good while ago that this guy is not capable of doing the job. I trained him well, he said this to my manager several times. My email sent folder is full of Word docs with guides I created for him. Also loads of videos recorded from Teams Sessions I did with him. The last raise I got was in January, I have to check through my payslips to see at what intervals I got raises before.

    Edit; I have seen his contract and in the "Job Description" I can categorically state that this guy is incapable of doing most of what is in it. His probation period is over so he is permanent now. He is also on a slightly higher salary than what I thought as well because the pay figure I know about was from his probation period and that is over now and it has ben increased by a five percent. I will start looking for a job tomorrow because this is taking the p***. If my salary was to be increased to what he is on I would need to get a 30 percent increase. I know that won't happen so I have no alternative but to look for something else.

    Post edited by lukin on


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    #68
    chrisd2019
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭chrisd2019


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264366#Comment_122264366

    Was in a similar position myself a number of years ago, accidentally discovered the salaries of colleagues (end of year revenue returns left on photocopier), as a long serving employee realised that newer less capable people who came to me to resolve their issues were being renumerated much better.

    For me it was wake up call, I went online found examples of similar roles and ultimately left. I did not consider fighting for equity with others, as if your long-term service and loyalty are not appreciated, you are better off in a new place.



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    #69
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122263678#Comment_122263678

    Thank you for your support. Most other people who have replied to me have an attitude of "He is getting well paid for a job he can't do, more power to him, good luck to him". Would they say that if they were in the same position as me themselves though?

    Anyway I am not giving him any more help and if he goes to my manager and complains about it I will ask him to look at my contract and show me where it says "trainer". Anyway his probation period is over and he should be able to manage by himself. I can make things unpleasant for him and I intend to. Why should I help this bluffer get away with it? With any luck he might get disillusioned and hand in his notice.

    As an aside, about his job title (which is on his contract), I asked my colleague (he was on the interview panel and asked the technical questions);

    "Is this guy a [job title]?" And he said "No he isn't". So I can ask my manager "what is his job title?" and when he gives the answer I can tell him my colleague who was on the interview panel said he wasn't. I am 100 percent certain he will back me.

    My manager has a habit of hiring people who don't turn out to have the knowledge required to do the job. There was a guy there before working under him and he left after 12 months. I asked one his colleagues "did he know anything about the job?" and he replied "He knew f*** all".



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    #70
    muzakfan
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭muzakfan


    You're beginning to display a lot of your personality OP and tbh on what I've seen I'd be happy enough to let you leave a company of your own free will. Probably the easy way out for the company. 😂



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    #71
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264713#Comment_122264713

    Oh yeah it'll be easy for them alright having that clown doing my job.

    We'll see how he manages.



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    #72
    Ted222
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭Ted222


    This is getting ridiculous.

    The OP has sought advice which it all points to discounting the pay/performance of the new hire and to concentrate of pursuing a greater value for his/her own position.

    In response, the OP continues to assert that the problem is with the new hire. He/She is unwilling to accept the thrust of the advice offered.

    It has the hallmarks of a troll at this stage



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    #73
    tohaltuwi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,463 ✭✭✭tohaltuwi


    speaking only for myself in the public service I can understand this frustration. Some departments & institutions in the public service were good, many have improved, but back in the day incompetence was rewarded. I retired early on full pension, and the pension was the only reason I stayed. To look around at management many of them were not particularly bright in the first place, and it was mainly on “bluster” and connections that they got promoted. I saw highly intelligent and super competent people being overlooked.



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    #74
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,977 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264862#Comment_122264862

    Trolling is defined as saying things to provoke other people.

    I don't think the OP is a troll: I think they genuinely to have a high opinion of themselves, and a lack of understanding of why people get hired. (If someone starts a new job and is able to do it fully competently in only 8 months, I'd say they are unusual, and not going to be adequately challenged by the role.)



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    #75
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264862#Comment_122264862

    OP is looking to vent, sulk and intends to behave spitefully and with malice - even to her own detriment.

    So people should stop responding as if this thread were some kind of business-related inquiry to do with salary.

    Key sentence is "I can make things unpleasant for him and I intend to."

    I've seen it before. In one job I was in a woman who didn't get a promotion created so much trouble afterwards that two other staff members ended up resigning.



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    #76
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265891#Comment_122265891

    I certainly do not have a high opinion of myself; quite the opposite in fact. When I started the job seven years ago I asked for a bit less than I was worth. I realise that now. I didn't want to ask for too much because I had a few gaps in my CV and also only about five years experience (and none of it related to the job I wa applying for). I thought that asking for a lowish salary would negate that a bit and help me get the job (maybe it did). Now I am paying the price for that because I started from a low salary base. I desperately wanted to get it because my parents were getting on in age an almost at a point where they would need permanent care. I can't afford that and the job was within commuting distance of their home. So I knew I could move home to look after them if I got the job.

    I know how salaries work; the HR department decides the salary based upon experience, it's not based upon what particular area that experience is in. They don't even look at that, they just look at experience in a general sense. "He has x years experience and he is looking for x amount." "We think that is reasonable, we will hire him" or "We don't think that is reasonable, we won't hire him".

    It's not like they go to the people who did the technical side of the interview and ask "He has ten years experience but is any of it related to the work he will be doing?" "It isn't? OK we will pass on him"

    I think that is a load of baloney myself but there you go. As I said maybe I am naive .



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    #77
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265928#Comment_122265928

    The guy is making no attempt to learn the job and I am fed up of it.



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    #78
    Kurooi
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    Logically as a structured argument you have 2 separate issues:

    1. The poor performance of the staff member.
    2. Your (low) pay.

    Your reward has nothing to do with other staff's poor performance, you're annoyed by it of course but if you're bringing it up this way as an argument, it's easy to dismiss. All your employer, manager or HR have to do is say that they don't have any issues with the staff members performance and then turn it around on you being hostile to be trying to argue other people down or out. Turn it into a you making conflicts in the workplace scenario. I would state the obvious and remind you, it is not for you to rate the performance of your peers. Your opinion on that matter carries no weight.

    If your goal is to manage your salary up you do that others are not part of that conversation. This is how others will view it. You don't want this to be a conflict, you want this to be a salary re-negotiation.

    I would just bring it up I know the market rate I know others are paid better. Don't need to quote sources. Unless your role can allow you access to this information in which case step carefully… Bring up the fact you're training other staff, the fact you're filling in or carrying extra responsibilities because you're there longer.



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    #79
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266004#Comment_122266004

    If my manager says he has no issues with this staff members performance I will point out that I was not asked for my opinion on him at any stage which I find surprising. My manager is not aware of his performance because he doesn't work directly for him, he works for the others on the team. I'm sure my manager asked for their opinion and they said he was satisfactory but some of the tasks he did for them I helped him with (or did the whole thing for him). I am fairly well positioned to evaluate his ability because I was/am training him but I was not asked how he was doing. Now maybe I should have gone to my manager myself and said "Look while I have been training yer man I noticed he can't do this, he can't do that, I am a bit surprised.."

    I hold my hands up there, that's my bad. But I am too placid.



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    #80
    Irish Aris
    Registered Users Posts: 5,069 ✭✭✭Irish Aris


    May I ask whether you're happy with your job? You sound extremely frustrated and I start wondering if this particular colleague is the straw that broke the camel's back.

    In any case I would suggest that you approach this way more diplomatic than some of the things that you came up with in this thread. There are quite a few good suggestions from people in this thread that you should take on board.



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    #81
    Kurooi
    Registered Users Posts: 644 ✭✭✭Kurooi


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266108#Comment_122266108

    The fact someone 8 months in is still not fully independent is not surprising, and it won't be to your manager either. Look my tip to you is straight, you will be more successful negotiating your salary if you're shooting straight for that.

    If you have an issue with another staff member that is NOT an opportunity to discuss your salary.



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    #82
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266146#Comment_122266146

    Yes I am happy with the job, I work in the evenings sometimes because I want to get things done. Anyone in there will tell you I'd stand on my head for them. I just realised now I am being paid well below the market rate and that there is someone else being paid well over the market rate and seems to be stone useless is extremely annoying.



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    #83
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,598 ✭✭✭jackboy


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266214#Comment_122266214

    The only one annoyed is yourself, no else cares. You were happy with your wages until you heard what this guy was on. Why don't you start with asking for a pay rise. Do it in a positive way, detailing why you deserve it. Don't trash your work colleague as part of looking for a pay increase.



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    #84
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266233#Comment_122266233

    For 40+ years I purposefully made sure I had no idea what my colleagues were earning or the benefits they had because there will always be people less well paid and better paid and it will no doubt upset me in some cases. I did however make sure that I was very much in line with the top end of the scale for whatever position I was acting in (most of my income has always been fee based).



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    #85
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    I got my pay increase anyway; ten percent. I'd say they didn't want to give it to me but they mustn't have been willing to take the risk of me leaving. I'm still not on as much as the incompetent guy but I didn't expect that so I am happy enough.
    The whole thing was instigated my me finding out his salary and that allied to the fact that he seems to know so little and care so little. I explained that (except for the part about knowing his salary; I said I know well he is earning more than me because he has more experience).
    That got me thinking and I looked up salaries in positions similar to mine and with the same level of experience.
    I realised I was being significantly underpaid.
    I never asked for an increase before in any job but I think I was justified and am worth it.
    I did give yer man a bit of a slagging as well, I don't feel bad about that. My manager informed me that he had told him that he was learning and "getting on grand" with a particular technology I have been teaching him when I know for a fact he he hasn't gone near it. That really annoyed me so set him straight because it is a bare-faced lie.
    It's in my interests to tell him anyway because if further down the line he is given a specific task to do in this technology and doesn't know how to do it, it will come back on me; "Did you teach him how to do this?". I can say "yes but he hasn't been studying what I taught him even though I told him to and he should know anyway he is supposed to". "Well why the f*** didn't you tell me?" will be the answer to that.
    I also told him about him asking me stuff I told him already or that he should be able to figure out for himself. My manager told me off for being "too helpful" and said don't help him. The gas thing is about two seconds after I came off the call with my manager the guy rang me asking me something he should be well able to figure out by himself. You couldn't make it up 😀.
    But I can see trouble down the road if this guy doesn't wake up and smell the coffee. But I won't be helping him anymore, I have been instructed not to.



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    #86
    Dr.Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Dr.Tom


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272541#Comment_122272541

    My man you care too much.

    Give less of a f**k and concentrate on yourself.

    I walk out the door here laughing at the company for paying incompetent people more money than me. That's the companies problem, not mine. I still get paid regardless.

    Try adopting that approach. Took me years to do but boy does it make a difference to my headspace.

    P.S. Well done on the raise



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    #87
    babyducklings1
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭babyducklings1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122272541#Comment_122272541

    Well done! Good for you. It’s always worth asking. 👍



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    #88
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Tell your boss to start a 'performance management plan'. Sit down, set realistic targets, and work the process. If he doesn't know what a PMP is, tell him to talk to someone senior in HR over the phone, they will understand and explain how to do it correctly.



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    #89
    Elessar
    Registered Users Posts: 5,251 ✭✭✭Elessar


    Look, this unfortunately happens all the time, in companies everywhere. I've been there. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but at the end of the day no one cares. Not your manager, not the company, not anyone else. You are just a number. You should start looking around and interview at a few different places. Get a good role in a good company with the proper pay, and leave. They will have you replaced soon enough and in a few weeks you'll be forgotten about completely.

    You are right that it is frustrating dealing with this incompetent guy, especially so that he is getting so much more and you're training him. It would leave a bitter taste in anyone's mouth. But set aside the bitterness, it won't do you any favours and concentrate on changing things. If you've trained the guy up, and your boss questions you about him or his work just say "I've already shown him how to do X, if he's not doing it, you need to speak to him". He or his work is not your responsibility.

    I had similar in a previous job. Like you I stayed way too long to the point where, with almost a decade of experience, we started getting some new joiners on the team, with zero experience, who started on the same wage I was on (as well as others in the team) that took me years to get to with tiny increments each year. It was one of the straws that broke the camels back (that and missing out on a promotion that went to a newer joiner) and I left. It was a great decision in hindsight, I'm in a much better company with better pay and my mental health has vastly improved. I'm still in contact with some friends there and found out they hired two people after I left and they are still struggling to complete a project I was working on a year later. Their loss. Ultimately, I won.

    Again never forget you're just a number, no matter how good you think you are. Concentrate on yourself and your own career and realise this sh*t happens all the time.



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    #90
    lukin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭lukin


    I am happy I got my raise but yes I do find it annoying that a person who is doing the same job as me and is not as good at it can get paid more based on his "experience". I am not dismissing experience as worthless, I have a good bit of experience myself.

    I am doing my current job for seven years, the incompetent guy has been here for 8 months but I can say with 100 percent certainty already that in 6 years and four months time he will not have reached the level of ability that I have now. I don't mean that in an arrogant manner, i just know because I can see this is a guy who just doesn't want to push himself.

    It's almost like a vast amount of experience is like a golden cloak or free pass that they can waltz into a place with an attitude of "I don't have to prove myself, I don't have to learn anything new, I've worked for x number of years in this business, that entitles me to duck out of doing things I don't want to". Someone needs to sit this guy down and spell things out for him.

    Strolling away laughing after you can't do something is simply not good enough.

    Also HR need to delve into a person's experience a bit more and see what that experience actually is. They need to stop equating it with an ability to do what this person is required to do.



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    #91
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,149 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    OP you genuinely need to let go of the issues around this guy. You've given your feedback to managment so leave it with them. Don't pick up his slack unless a manager asks you to, that's the quickest way for them to see a problem if there is one. It could very simply be the case that the new guy is spotting you doing his tasks that he hasn't done & is taking advantage of that but might buckle down when he sees that not happening anymore.

    As for HR - any business I've worked in, HR have been there to put out the job ad & sort out the communications but the salary range was always done by the management team of the department as it comes out of their budget. Not out of HRs. So the assessment of experience etc would be with the management team who interviewed him, not HR.

    That being said, stop focusing so much time & energy on your colleague & maybe start putting that it to yourself.



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