Faulty Sofar Hyd Inverter possibly?

irishchris · 15-06-2024 8:18pm #1

On testing the backup socket from my sofar hyd-Ep 6000 inverter it is showing up with live neutral reverse on the testing plug. Everything appears to be working but surely it shouldn't be showing this on the socket.

I disconnected all connections bar solar to the inverter including grid connection in order to rule everything else out but same error on backup. Tried wiring new temporary socket to it also but same result. No fault reported on the inverter but have disconnected the backup connection as a safety precaution meaning my home assistant monitoring etc is now offline.

Has anyone here a sofar hybrid and if so can they test the backup on it as surely not meant to be like this.

Reported the fault to sofar this evening but was hoping for some others experience with it

graememk · 15-06-2024 8:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058356049/faulty-sofar-hyd-inverter-possibly

If running a double insulated device (eg something with no earth), Its fine to run.

What does the multi -meter show?

Measure L to E, Measure N to E and L to N, Gives a more broad picture of things.

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 8:58pm

This is the issue with the earth neutral bond. If you measure earth to neutral you'll find about 110v.

irishchris · 15-06-2024 9:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264183#Comment_122264183

Is that a dangerous issue/inverter fault?

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264288#Comment_122264288

Yes it is dangerous but it's not an inverter fault. We exchanged pm's on this exact issue. Whoever installed your system didn't do it correctly.

irishchris · 15-06-2024 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264321#Comment_122264321

Thanks a million for getting back, In what sense? How would this be rectified? Good to know not an inveryer issue but in terms of fixing it what would be the process?

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264351#Comment_122264351

First of all this needs to be confirmed but I suspect you have voltage between neutral and earth. You should have 0 volts between N and E.

Did you have power off when you did the test or is this the permanent back up socket? Do you have a changeover switch?

graememk · 15-06-2024 9:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264288#Comment_122264288

Not dangerous per say, but in this situation only class 2 (double insulated) devices should be used.

Does this change if the inverter is on grid or off grid?

Eg on the sunsynk/deye when the inverter is grid tied the situation is normal. But off grid the neutral floats. That's where the E-N contactor bond kicks in to bring N back to 0

Another thing that is done is only the L is switched on a changeover thus preserving the E- N bond.

@allinthehead where does the N of the "generator" go in this situation, just parked somewhere?

irishchris · 15-06-2024 9:46pm

This is a permanent back up switch. But I also have a changeover switch wired from this. Got local spark to do the backup switch side.

Had power on when used the tester plug

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264377#Comment_122264377

Protective devices will most likely fail to operate when there's voltage between N and E.

If neutral is switched then N and E need to be bonded together from the inverter. If neutral isn't switched then you just use the Esb neutral. Problem with that is if your inverter Rcbo trips then you lose the neutral/earth bond to a permanent back up supply so in this situation a contactor may be required if operating in island mode to bond Esb neutral and backup neutral.

irishchris · 15-06-2024 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264377#Comment_122264377

Seems to be the same on grid or offgrid. The same also whether eps mode is turned on or off. Mainly raspberry pi plugged into backup mode but have in past powered whole house in backup mode when grid down

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 10:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264377#Comment_122264377

Did you mean the N of the Load?

graememk · 15-06-2024 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264453#Comment_122264453

The N from the inverter. When the only the live is switched, where does the N from the inverter go? Just to the shared neutral bar

allinthehead · 15-06-2024 10:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264474#Comment_122264474

Yes exactly, it goes to the main neutral bar.

10-10-20 · 16-06-2024 9:52am

Are you getting 220v between L and N, Irishchris? If so would that not signify that it's a dual phase output with L and N being two offset phases and each phase being 110v relative to earth…?

irishchris · 16-06-2024 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265192#Comment_122265192

Will test when get back shortly. Is this common practise with inverters as never had it with the Solis or sunsynk which fitted?

graememk · 16-06-2024 10:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265195#Comment_122265195

Sunsynk load output is grid tied until it goes off grid (Uses the house N-E bond, Which is usually at the ESBN fuse block, When its isolated from the grid the neutral can float, but still have 230v between L and N.

So then it can use a relay to enable the E- N bond, when it is off grid.

sunsynk videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtDblj7MMjY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lpzwr4BIyo

On the Me3000 that i used to have I did check the load output, and that did have a E-N bond at the inverter, but that only went live when the grid was out.

irishchris · 16-06-2024 11:29am

Quickly tried switching generator switch over to backup and the fault detector shows everything fine within the house running it off the backup of inverter. However the backup supply socket beside inverter is still showing the fault in backup mode with house connected off same backup supply working fine with tester. Puzzles me as would have expected same error on house running off backup

Will test the connection of neutral to live when get back home again shortly

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265420#Comment_122265420

That seems odd, you would expect the back up socket to be the same as the house. I had a look through the manual and it doesn't give much detail on eps mode. It does show a diagram that shows the earth connected to neutral on the grid side, ie the Esb neutralising link.

Do you know if your spark switched the neutral in your distribution board?

irishchris · 16-06-2024 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265668#Comment_122265668

Yes the neutral is switched also

graememk · 16-06-2024 1:22pm

Is the socket wired correctly?

Need to get a multi meter on it, measuring L to N, L to E, N to E

irishchris · 16-06-2024 5:40pm

Triple checked all connections and all correct.

Multimeter readings are odd with 129v live to earth, 105v neutral to earth and 234v from live to neutral

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266508#Comment_122266508

That's roughly what I'd expect to see from an inverter where the neutral has no reference to earth. Now, the question remains why you don't see this elsewhere when operating in eps mode.

irishchris · 16-06-2024 6:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266648#Comment_122266648

Yes puzzles why it isn't the same when reaches house main board. Photo below is the mini board before then feeding main board. The backup is supplied to the hager changeover switch on the left before then supplying main board.

Have neutral earth bond enabled in settings on the sofar

Still debating whether to run the extension to my home assistant rpi off the backup supply. Turned off at the minute

graememk · 16-06-2024 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266708#Comment_122266708

So if you run them checks at the change over switch, you get "normal" results? When running on backup? (And not running on the backup)

If you turn off the grid to the inverter does that change anything? (And not running the change over)

Running the pi is fine as it's usb powered, and the usb powered supply would be double insulated

Edit:

My thinking is that when you turn on the changeover, the inverter detects the loss of grid and then enables the internal EN bond.

When it's got a grid, this isn't enabled so it doesn't trip it's rcbo

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 7:26pm

They can't be sharing the exact same source if you're getting different results. It would be interesting to see the inverter wiring.

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266793#Comment_122266793

Bingo.

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 7:32pm

What's also a little strange is that there's no mention of the earth neutral bond in the manual.

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 7:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266793#Comment_122266793

What's odd here though is that when operating on grid you would think that the eps output would essentially be using the grid bond. At least that's how the Sunsynk operates.

graememk · 16-06-2024 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266849#Comment_122266849

Gotta love a good puzzle 😂.

Yeah the grid/gen(aux)/ load on the sunsynk all share the same bus bar

Controlled by relays on the connections, anything on the load (or aux) when running on grid is also running "on the grid"

allinthehead · 16-06-2024 7:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266877#Comment_122266877

Definitely a puzzle this one, didn't Chris say that the eps socket was also displaying the same behaviour even with the grid absent?🧐

irishchris · 16-06-2024 8:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266906#Comment_122266906

Yes same issue with the eps socket when grid is disabled

irishchris · 16-06-2024 8:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266793#Comment_122266793

Will test on the changeover switch both scenarios in the morning as would be killed by the family if shut power off again tonight 😁

irishchris · 16-06-2024 8:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122266818#Comment_122266818

The backup of inverter is wired to 32a rcbo next to it before travelling in on swa cable directly to the changeover switch. This then goes from changeover switch to main board

allinthehead · 26-06-2024 10:45am

Any update on this?

irishchris · 26-06-2024 11:13am

Nothing since. Sofar support is next to useless. Got one response asking some questions on dc/ac voltage all of which I had provided all the data for when ticket for it. Silence since provided all the figures again

allinthehead · 26-06-2024 5:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122305495#Comment_122305495

Just like Sunsynk support then, responded once and ignored the rest of my responses. Then they closed the ticket.🤠🤠

irishchris · 26-06-2024 8:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122307265#Comment_122307265

Yep the same with sofar. When they did respond with their nonsensical reply they followed it up within a minute that if was not replied to within 24 hours the problem would be considered solved and the ticket closed

Faulty Sofar Hyd Inverter possibly?

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