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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Discussion on newstalk about Ryanair emissions being large since they are one of the largest airlines that continues to grow

    One of the commentators made a good point, that people are choosing to fly because they want to without giving two 💩 s about emissions

    Technology and science and engineering is how climate change will be solved not politics and taxes and science hating environmentalists who keep going on about windmills that are not even keeping up with rising global demand, never mind taking a dent in global emissions



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Green's want us taking our annual holiday in a tent in the pissings of rain and wind in Donegal or Cork. Nobody in their right mind considers a break in Ireland a proper holiday. I've booked 2 separate sun holidays this summer for the family as well as a motorbike trip away on a ferry to northern Spain in September.

    I work darn hard enough and there is no way in hell im not getting my relaxation breaks away from this country. The Green's can get ta fook.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Notwithstanding that the Greens don't seem to give a hoot about domestic tourism, we regularly take annual holidays here. Some years are not great, most are fine and some spectacularly good.

    And yes I do resent all the taxes on motor fuels etc needed to holiday in Ireland whilst planes guzzling large amounts of aviation fuel get a free tax ride.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,703 ✭✭✭creedp


    Usual inconsistent implementation of this vital climate saving polluter pays principle. Poor auld private motorist Paddy is obliged to take one for the global team when he both buys and drives his humanity destroying ICE car but can hop in his private jet and not give a flying fcuk about it.

    Why is higher CO2 based VRT charged on ICE cars when the imbedded CO2 is higher for EVs? Surely under the polluter pays principle the co2 based tax should be levied on fuel burned in ICE cars in Ireland while the impeded co2 is levied on the manufacturer? Good auld reliable cash cow private motorist just keeps on giving

    Why is green diesel exempted from fuel duty burned by the farmers producing food but levied on hauliers delivering raw material to food manufacturers and delivering food products to the market?

    At least if these faux climate saving taxes were consistently applied maybe they could be supported and objectively justified. Some chance though



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Again you are incorrect it was already towed in January for maintenance and must be back in action now. Taken from the net today!

    Hywind Scotland is fully operational at present but tow-in operations will begin later in the year, taking advantage of the more benign weather periods in late spring and summer in the Northern Hemisphere.

    I think you should do some research yourself..



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I'm not gung ho but I think investment in a renewable is wise and can we really depenf on the UK in the future? I don't think so. I am not against searching for oil or gas here. Even if it isn't for electricity or fuel it will still be needed for a long time for other production purposes i.e. fertilizer, chemical etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Fair points all. Aviation fuel is zero rated when it shouldn't be. At least food production is essential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If you have a problem with it being towed to Norway for "heavy maintenance" in January rather that this Summer take it up with Equinox. It was they that changed their previously declared schedule not me.

    It doesn`t change that after one quarter of their supposed lifespan the whole array had to be towed to Norway from Hywind in Scotland and back for "heavy maintenance" or why it as "tecnically" not possible to build 25% of the turbines of that 37GW proposal for the next 20 years, if ever, in seas that have storm waves twice the height of those of the North Sea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Ground broken on Bill Gates new revolutionary natrium reactor

    Which comes with built in energy storage, ability to ramp up output quickly, literally can not meltdown with passive safety

    And can use thorium and spent uranium fuel of which we have something like 80,000 years in known reserves

    Technical details here

    https://hackaday.com/2021/07/06/terrapowers-natrium-combining-a-fast-neutron-reactor-with-built-in-grid-level-storage/


    This stored heat energy can then be used as needed to spin an electric generator, heat buildings, and so on. By decoupling the processes of generating the thermal energy and using it for generating electricity and so on, the electrical output of such a nuclear plant can be varied dynamically depending on the needs of the grid. This leads TerraPower to advertise Natrium as the ideal firm power compliment to a grid with a lot of variable renewable energy (VRE) like solar and wind.”



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    You were the one going on about accuracy. So i pointed out your errors.

    As for not possible where are you getting that? Where is the admission by Eamon Ryan mentioned earlier? I await your responses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    I know when you precede science with the definite article aka "the science", you are merely expressing an opinion that's based on a consensus position enforced by another group rather than actual science. You have been sold an idea by green marketing that wind and sunshine are free and unbound, details like physics and chemistry limits don't concern you, any more than sourcing materials and costs of building the infrastructure to support this.

    All economic choices come about by tradeoffs, the materials required in the timescales set down in legislation concerning net zero do not exist on the market. The current electrical grid was build over a period of 100 years, it cannot be redone in 10 years, nor can the raw materials to harvest wind or solar be processed without coal, gas and oil. By your own definition renewables technology is therefore not sustainable, aside from sourcing rare earth minerals, these cannot function independently of primary energy sources coal, gas and oil.

    Everyone born since ~1800 has been adapting to their local climate, how many generations is that? We will continue to adapt to our environment now and in the future with the available resources to us. The track record of people successfully prophesying environmental doom by specific dates has been on par with the people claiming the arrival of the second coming of God.

    Back in the 19th century, the Thames in London stunk of sewage, they resolved that problem by building a sewerage system and extended that scheme to their port cities. The technology of the time allowed them to do so. In fact before the rise of motorised transport, everywhere stunk of horse excrement, getting rid of it was a problem. Land for feeding horses has been freed up to build houses and food for humans. Smog disappeared from many major cities due to the rise of natural gas heating. Our lives in Ireland today on practically every metric are better than our ancestors, the post world war II period has seen the world enjoy the greatest rise in living standards in the entire history of humanity.

    It's fine to pursue efficiency in use of resources (waste not, want not), don't conflate it with green marketing seeking power and money. We cannot maintain static climate patterns by simply consuming prescribed green labelled products. Climate cycles exist on timelines beyond our individual allotted lifespans on this planet, there is no climate emergency, it's just political virtue signalling.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Pedantic nonesense.

    I already told you, but it seems that while you are capable of coming up with randomer opinions from such reliable sources as Quora and Meithal Na Gaoithe you cannot find headline articles from last month on mainstream media. Go and do a bit of research and stop wasting my time with your nonesense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Rather than calling what I posted nonsense you should post your own sources. Where is Eamonn Ryan saying it's not technically possible?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    A lot of hot air there. You choose to glibly dismiss the consensus of the Scientific community so that says enough for me and I'd say for any thinking person.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    When it comes to research, if you cannot find a statement by Eamon Ryan a few weeks ago in The Irish Examiner and other mainline media sources there is nothing much I can do for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    No it appears you can't. Less of your highhandedness and more facts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You won't get many facts around this thread, lots of noise and blaming the Green Party for everything from people without a clue what the policies are of any party in regards to environment



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Consensus is religion and politics. You are expressing your faith by invoking "the science" as cover for your lack of knowledge, the objective being to censor anyone who disagrees with your invalid apocryphal beliefs.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Hilarious from someone who relies on Quora and Meithal Na Gaoithe for their "facts".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Come off it. You have nothing to point at just more hot air. Eamon Ryan source?



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    Airlines participate in the ETS and I consider my flights to see family and friends as essential as the food I eat.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    What rate do they pay towards the ETS? If one were taken away how long would you live without A food or B friends?

    Whatever you may think, flying to see friends is not as essential as food/water.



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    …and the considerable airport departure taxes throughout most of europe.

    Who the hell do you think you are dictating to others what they can do with regard to living a meaningful life as opposed to a hollow existence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    I am calling out your hyperbole and you don't like it. Of course food is a priority not flying for fun. Such nonsense!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 kohaiu


    The same as everyone else – currently about €65 – AFAIU they don't receive any free allowances since 2023 according to

    https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/eu-emissions-trading-system-eu-ets/free-allocation/allocation-aviation-sector_en

    If you want them to pay more, buy and bank allowances to reduce supply in the market. (ticker CO2 on LSE)



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    I like to give you a platform to expose you and yours. keep preaching.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    More nonsense. Have you nothing to say that makes sense or a reasonable argument?



  • Registered Users Posts: 370 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    I am taking not one but two flights tomorrow to see friends and family and you and yours can't do a damn thing about it.

    The support for the fascist brand of environmentalism which has been advanced on this forum for years is thankfully waning and what is more the rest of us are no longer to endure it in silence.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Off you go nobody will stop you I'm sure but don't tell me it is as essential as food! I suggested that an increased tax on aviation fuel is fair and reasonable. If cars and trucks are taxed why should aviation be exempt?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/carbon-taxes-on-jet-fuel-will-increase-air-fares-but-cut-emissions-says-esri-1.4757029



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