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Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭.Donegal.


    I had planned on booking flights with AL for a trip in August but too much uncertainty for my liking to risk it. Is there any rumour as to when this might get resolved?



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 knobtasticus


    As defined by what? No, from the point of view of industrial relations and pay negotiations, increments are not considered pay rises or ‘pay awards’ if you will. If they were, none of us would be having this conversation.

    EI knows this. So any argument made otherwise is a bad faith and disingenuous one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2 StakeholderValue


    Three members of the top brass at Aer Lingus – including its chief executive and chief financial officer – earned the bulk of almost €2.8m in core director remuneration paid by the airline last year.

    CEO Lynne Embleton, CFO Elizabeth Haun and chief corporate affairs officer Donal Moriarty split the lion’s share of the pay, with two non-executive directors – including former CEO Stephen Kavanagh – receiving a much lesser part of the compensation.

    Newly filed accounts for the airline show that the top trio’s total €2.8m in emoluments, including basic pay, jumped from €1.1m in 2021, when global airlines remained mired in the fallout from the Covid-19 pandemic.

    Total remuneration for the top directors at the carrier topped €4.1m last year and included almost €1.4m in benefits under long-term incentive schemes – certain to be shares in IAG. That figure was down from almost €2.4m in 2021.

    The newly filed accounts for the airline reveal the payments.

    Total executive pay to all Aer Lingus executive management, directors and non-executive directors rose to €6.2m from €3m, the accounts show. That includes payments to a total of 12 executives at the carrier, it is understood.

    Last year, IAG chief executive Luis Gallego was paid just over €3m, compared with just under €1.3m in 2021. His pay last year included a base salary of €963,000 and a €1.6m bonus split evenly between cash and a deferred share award.

    Unions at Aer Lingus recently secured a fresh pay deal for the airline’s staff, who are in line for a cumulative 13pc pay rise between this year and January 2025. They are also getting a €750 lump-sum payment.

    Aer Lingus is part of the IAG group, which also owns British Airways, Iberia and Vueling. IAG releases third quarter results today. The third quarter includes the busy summer season and the results are likely to show a strong performance by the group and Aer Lingus, as it continued to benefit from a resurgence in international travel.

    Last year, Aer Lingus posted a €38m operating profit as revenues surged to almost €1.7bn as passenger traffic recovered after the pandemic. Those figures compared with a €347m loss in 2021, when revenue was €367m.

    Aer Lingus is hiring 200 cabin crew – here are the salaries, perks and height restrictions

    But the airline made a pre-tax loss of €19m last year after it shouldered charges including €55m in finance costs and a €10.4m loss on derivatives.

    The carrier’s financial performance has continued to improve during 2023 and it has hired a significant number of staff as operations return to normal.

    It made a €40m operating profit in the first half of 2023, which compared with an €83m loss in the first six months of 2022.

    The performance last year also reflects increased activity at the airline’s Manchester base.

    Recently filed accounts for the UK arm of Aer Lingus, which launched transatlantic flights from Manchester to the US and the Caribbean in 2021, show that it generated a profit of €5.1m last year as revenue rose to just under €87m.

    Manchester accounted for 13pc of all Aer Lingus transatlantic capacity in 2022 and 8pc of Aer Lingus capacity across its entire network.

    Aer Lingus is expanding its network to the US again next year, launching a new route between Dublin and Denver, and relaunching a service to Minneapolis-St Paul. It has also relaunched a route between Dublin and Hartford, Connecticut, after a two-year hiatus.





  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭notuslimited


    I’m been at Aer Lingus’s top tier frequent traveller club every year since 2006. I fly a lot with EI. This year in my experience has been the best year in terms of on time performance. Going in the other direction has been the fares. It’s getting to be really expensive. Wanted to book a weekend trip to Nice for 4 of us and the EI Saver fare return was €2700. I passed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22 dash8q400


    You must have worked for some pretty **** companies mate, I've worked in the private sector for over 25 years and every single company I worked in had a contract payscale attached. Lol, don't even want to know where to begin with how wrong that statement is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    When public service increments were frozen during the bust, it wasn't seen as a paycut though…… But it's only a play on words in reality, it's all pay at the end of day



  • Registered Users Posts: 809 ✭✭✭LiamaDelta


    That's because inflation was pretty much at 0-2%, as were interest rates, so a pay freeze didn't have as much impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭StormForce13


    Have you a point to make, or are you simply telling us some interesting facts?

    It's good to see that the company is successful, but I'm unclear as to why its success should mean that it should roll over and award a 27% increase to its highest paid staff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 knobtasticus


    (24%).


    Because if a company can’t afford to simply maintain the spending power of its employees year-on-year, then it has no business calling itself ‘successful’.



  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭Snow Leopard


    We must work in very different sectors, I guess. Not a single person I know in the finance or tech sectors benefit from contractually-guaranteed 'increments'. You get a pay increase if you are promoted or negotiate one.

    The increments vs pay rise debate is all smoke and mirrors. They both result in the same thing - an increase in pay.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭lintdrummer


    On your last paragraph:

    The claim is not solely based on annual profits from 2023, that's merely an indication of how healthy Aer Lingus is and how capable it is of improving it's staff remuneration if it didn't focus solely on shareholder value and executive bonuses.

    I'm also uncertain why you think this profit is unlikely to be sustained? Pandemic aside, Aer Lingus has posted significant profits annually for over a decade. This is despite being so badly managed that they rely on wet lease hire ins every summer. These aircraft cost around €100k per day. Imagine if the airline was staffed adequately and they didn't have to squander that potential profit? How many pilot/cabin crew/engineer etc salaries would that cover?

    Lastly, Aer Lingus forecasts growing profits over the next 5 years to levels beyond the 2023 results. Ialpa are aware of this and so the claim, while only restoring lost purchasing power to pilots, is taking account of future financial performance.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭BringBackMick


    that’s surprising but thanks for info .


    is this because they list a flight with flight time of 2hrs as a 3hr flight I wonder ?


    is there any oversight of them sort of shenanigans ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    I'm pretty sure most airlines do this nowadays, though the extent may vary. It's block-to-block time rather than time in the air that counts and at times taxi and ATC restrictions (for example) account for a not-insignificant portion of the overall journey time, especially on the fairly short hops that account for a lot of Irish traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭breadmond


    In person ballot results are in, pretty unanimous in favour of action as expected

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0617/1455044-aer-lingus-pilots-ballot/



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭notuslimited


    I just hope they get on with it and put us all out of our misery. I’m booked for MCO in July and have paid €3000 for hotel stays that are non-refundable. If I was earning €200k plus I wouldn’t dream of going on strike for more pay.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    I concur. If you knew the date, then only those people are miserable but at present, anyone travelling in the next 3 weeks are collectively miserable and hence in no way supportive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭FR738


    any ideas when they might announce a date?



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭breadmond


    I'm curious, at what salary figure exactly do you think workers no longer have the right to negotiate for pay rises? And how much do you think it's acceptable to have your real pay eroded by inflation before you do something and demand an improvement? Would you be happier if only first officers went on strike, or even newly minted captains who haven't breached the 200k barrier yet?



  • Registered Users Posts: 49 knobtasticus


    To word this slightly better - it’s important that every employee of every company as successful as EI has the same spending power as they had in 2019. Companies have gotten away with socialising losses and privatising profits for too long. The rot stops now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭breadmond


    I think it's nuts that the pilots are being painted as the greedy ones when the management board have awarded themselves 100%+ increases in renumeration over the last couple of years while refusing to meaningfully negotiate with the worker group who are literally responsible for keeping the whole show running safely and efficiently



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  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭notuslimited


    I never said they don’t have the right to negotiate for pay rises, I said I wouldn’t dream on going on strike if I was earning €200k plus.

    The Labour Court has issued its recommendation, and the pilots have rejected it while IAG has accepted it. As a result, a strike by pilots is going to cause a lot of heartache and misery for thousands of Irish families with significant financial costs probably running into the millions in terms of non-refundable payments made.

    And to add a little perspective, according to the latest research, the average salary in Ireland is c.45k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭breadmond


    Labour court recommendations aren't binding, and this one didn't address half of the pilots concerns including the attempt to split the workforce by putting new pilots on an inferior contract.

    Nobody wants to cause disruption or see the average holidaymaker lose out but at the end of the day the workers have exhausted all other options

    And I fail to see how the average salary has anything to do with it. The average worker doesn't need to invest 100k to enter their industry, the average worker doesn't have responsibility for hundreds of lives on a daily basis, the average worker doesn't live with the risk of a minor medical issue ending their career at any moment. Pilots are well paid but that's for a good reason, it's an incredibly highly skilled job that has almost zero tolerance for mistakes. That's without going into the unsociable hours and how utterly exhausting it can be...



  • Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭Rock Steady Edy


    At least with a minimum of 7 days notice and assuming it's only 1 strike day at a time, anyone affected can hopefully be moved to the day before or after the original travel date.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22 dash8q400


    To the pilots of Aer Lingus, fair play to you for standing up for yourselves and not letting the company try and run roughshod all over you. The job of a pilot is not your average everyday job nor can it be compared to such, you'll never get the support of the public, especially the vested interests of such people who are only worried about losing their own holidays so never be concerned about that, it won't get you what you're looking for. Stand up for your fair share of the pie. Hopefully some of the rest of us might follow suit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    In Cork or Shannon, many routes are not daily. Eg Tenerife is Mon and Fri



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    common sense? We all come at this from our own perspectives. Outside public service and entities which derive therefrom (such as a privatised formerly-state owned airline), there is no concept of a pay rise simply for racking up a further year of service. Accordingly, from the perspective of those who do not work in those areas, an incremental increase in pay is a pay rise. Was the pay higher afterwards but the role and responsibilities had not changed? If yes the. That would commonly be regarded as a pay rise. Understandably, if your experience is of that being the norm the. You don’t see it as a pay rise but outside the bubble you are in, that is precisely what it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,272 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    I think that they can strike if they want; what bugs me is the mock “poor mouthing”. I saw a statement somewhere that 2/3rds of the airline’s staff earn less than the proposed pay rise for the top captain. I am paid very well and I will fight for pay in a bonus culture. None of us would have ever seen us as the sort of people who would “strike” to improve our terms and conditions. We would find better ways or else head for another employer. One significant issue is that the EI pilots, in the main, will not leave the country for another employer hence why they employ the strike tactic. It’s very shop-floor and not very “professional”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Its a bit of a scummy thing to do though in all fairness. Many who voted will be earning higher than those who will be impacted. Families who have saved hard to be able to afford a holiday. To schedule strike action during the peak summer months has one aim only and its to hold aer lingus to ransom and also cause hardship to normal men and women amd children.

    Im a public servant and regardless of pension levies or paycuts absolutely never back strike action. Its always the poorest in society that will be affected. Poor form from Aer lingus flight crew.



  • Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭notuslimited


    Please play the ball and not the man.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 22 dash8q400


    Funny how that works both ways, all joking aside though whilst I don't work for AL despite a previous accusation, I do work for another operator in Dublin who has seen its own terms and conditions slowly degraded over the past ten years but particularly during COVID. I do feel sympathy for the passengers but just remember whilst you may miss this year's trip due to IR, rember that the decisions the guys and girls are making in AL will affect them for the rest of their careers. If you begrudge their salaries then fair enough, we are a nation of begrudgers after all so that's not surprising. Them fighting for better terms and conditions will hopefully benefit everyone in the industry down the line myself include and hopefully stop the race to the bottom.



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