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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the right.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,990 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    If you disagree with someone you should be able to debate them, not try to censor them. That sounds like you are becoming that which you claim to oppose!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I'd tend to agree with this.

    Allow them to speak so people can see how deluded and abhorrent their viewpoints are , but there needs to be greater sanction for the kinds of "protest" these groups have been engaging in in recent times.

    Standing outside a politicians private residence and screaming and roaring at them isn't acceptable nor is verbally abusing a Garda or a Construction worker doing their job.

    Screaming "Peaceful Protest!!!!!!!" at the top of your voice does not absolve you of the need to behave in an orderly fashion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,080 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Freedom of speech is important in any democratic society. However there should always be limits, particularly about the type of speech, you cannot allow people to call for extermination of a race, for example. Which can be seen regularly in Ireland when it comes to certain ethnic minorities.

    current hate speech legislation is outdated and not fit for purpose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,380 ✭✭✭✭lawred2




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,826 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They march in Cork every Saturday. Screaming about Jews and America.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,718 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The problem is that the far right try to normalise this under the aegis of having a different opinion and not being allowed to express it. All sorts of harassment and abuse would be minimized in this manner if they could get away with it. It's very common on social media and even here.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,591 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I think shoving mobile phones in people's faces is something that needs to be tackled too.

    It's sending a very clear message if you're recording somebody coming or going from work, or a Garda, librarian, counter-protestor, charity worker etc.

    I think the secret recording to humiliate people going about their business is pretty disgusting too.

    The issue being how do you tackle that, while still allowing Joe Soap to pull out his phone at a concert, and still allowing legitimate journalists to do their work?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,713 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    You have hit upon the core issue. The political author Paul Gottfried describes how such labels have tended to morph from descriptive to narrative framing ones, used to describe anyone who " opposes social transformation.". Thus the media and progressive commentators describe any one from the heretofore traditional conservatives to outright neo-nazi groups as far right for being, as to old saying goes, to the right of the Guardian letter page.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    Anyone who claims to not be far-right but right so far is far-right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭gw80


    What's the Irish for gulags



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,982 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The series of Courts convictions over the past year would suggest that you've got that wrong about the far left. How are you assessing that danger?



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    Any real life examples of the far left causing bigger issues than the far right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,117 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    I think we would be better off reigning in the current establishment than the far right to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,434 ✭✭✭batman_oh




  • Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭Astartes




  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75


    Let the tyrannical woke intolerance begin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭SNNUS


    The far left are a bigger issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    I was assuming the context was in modern day Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭Rothko




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,888 ✭✭✭✭Rothko




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,080 ✭✭✭suvigirl




  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    Have they set up an office in Dublin or something? I was under the impression they had been disbanded decades ago



  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Highlighter75




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,282 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    Straight out of the left playbook.

    Firstly you would need to define what "far right" is - given its use for almost everything these days. It has lost all relevant meaning… just because someone disagrees with you does not make them "far right". Who would "this group" be? I assume you can name and shame?

    With regards to Clonmel and the whole "you get no say". We have already seen that this does not appear to apply to affluent areas of Dublin. In terms of fairness I assume you will be actively advocating for the likes of ballsbridge to take their fair share?.. its "far right" not to do so, right?…. or are they not "far right" because they have the money and means/connections to stop the appropriation of buildings etc and as such do not have to resort to protesting?

    As for the Adeleke, assuming you are referring to people saying she isn't Irish. This would be a matter of perspective - some people say she is others say she isn't - not exactly sure how this is racist.

    You want everyone to agree with you, if they do not, you want laws brought in to make sure they comply. Ya that sort of censorship has totally worked before.

    For education - I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest you want this to only focus on the supposed positives of large scale immigration and none of the negatives? I assume the same sort of education that tries to tell us men can be women?

    You come out with stuff like this and then wonder why people react the way they do - but as always they are the problem, not you. This is a prime example of the unbalanced nonsense that has us here in the first place.

    Post edited by twinytwo on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,392 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    We haven't "reined-in" the far-left, so should we start?

    The far-left want to undermine nation-states, is that acceptable?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    The Palestinian protests in colleges (disrupting graduation ceremonies etc), BLM protests/riots and the lunatics who glue themselves to the floor on roads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭Cordell


    The Cold War was a frozen war between two nuclear superpowers - nothing to do with the far left or far right.

    What far left did is much much worse, it's been 70 years since the end of WWII and the beginning of far left rule in half of Europe, and 35 years since it was officially over, and the scars are yet to heal, partly because the far left never got it's Nurnberg trials. Far right is simple and transparent, anyone can see it coming. Far left on the other hand had its ideology written by very smart (and evil) men, and it is persuasive and insidious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭TagoMago


    Thanks but I'm already familiar with that. Should have been more clear in my post but I was looking for examples in the present day in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,749 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Really seems to come down to education. Hopefully, with the way kids are being taught this days these, extreme, “views” won’t be a feature in the years to come.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,392 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Yes, loads.

    Is PBP the best known far-left extremist party? I think so.

    But there are others, e.g.

    https://www.socialistparty.ie/

    Also Independents4Change (Clare Daly), and there are more.

    Here is an example of far-left policies, from PBP, see below. Basically, they want an end to nation-states, and borders. They want floods of illegal immigrants to come here, although they would be legitimate if PBP were in control.

    It's hard to believe, but far-left extremists are on the media on a daily basis.

    Summary

    • Oppose Racism in all its forms – legislate to make racism a hate crime
    • Oppose the policy of Fortress Europe – welcome those fleeing war and persecution
    • Legislate to end the Direct Provision System
    • Oppose all deportations – treat refugees and asylum seekers with dignity and respect
    • Integrate Migrants – Give them Voting Rights
    • Oppose all forms of Islamophobia
    • Support the right of Muslim people, along with all other religions, to practice their religious beliefs
    • Oppose state racism against Travellers. Establish an Independent National Housing Agency to oversee the delivery of safe and culturally appropriate Traveller Accommodation
    • No Platform for Fascists – oppose them on the streets if necessary
    • Oppose Israel as an apartheid state. Support the Ban Divestment and Sanctions Movement against Israel

    Migrants, Asylum Seekers and Refugees

    People Before Profit is opposed to the policy of ‘Fortress Europe’ which is designed to keep out migrants, asylum seekers and refugees. This policy has already led to the deaths of thousands of people with many more being trafficked into slavery due to their vulnerable positions. We believe that

    • Europe should open its borders. With 500 million people, Europe can easily cope with two million refugees. Europe should open its borders and Ireland has a duty to welcome its share of refugees from war, oppression, persecution and other inhuman conditions. Western imperialism bears a heavy responsibility for the creation of these conditions.
    • End Direct Provision System. Ireland has a duty to treat asylum seekers and refugees who arrive here with decency and humanity. There should be no delay in ending the disgraceful system of direct provision. Asylum seekers should have the right to work, the right to a house and the equal right to a third level education.
    • End Deportations – Legalise Undocumented Migrants. We support the call to normalise the undocumented Irish in the USA, but this must go both ways. We are for the normalisation (i.e. ’legalisation’) of undocumented migrants here in Ireland too. We oppose all deportations either from Ireland or the USA.
    • Integrate Migrants – Give them Voting Rights. People Before Profit supports the right of all residents to vote in elections and referendums after a suitable period of residency. We believe everyone should be able to have their say regardless of race or citizenship.
    • Oppose all forms of Islamophobia. Islamophobia is one of the main forms of racism in the contemporary world. It has been systematically cultivated by the US and European ruling elites since ‘Muslims’ replaced ‘communists’ as the enemy of choice with the end of the cold war. Just as racism was used to justify slavery and empire in the 18th and 19th centuries, so Islamophobia has been used to justify Western wars, interventions and occupations in the Middle East. People Before Profit opposes Islamophobia. We reject the idea that there is a particular link between Islam and terrorism. People Before Profit is against terrorism and we reject the demonisation of Muslims. We also reject the idea that Islam is a peculiarly backward or reactionary religion. Like the adherents of all major religions, Muslims come in all political shapes and sizes ranging from right-wing and reactionary to left-wing and revolutionary.
    • Support the right of Muslim people, along with all other religions, to practice their religious beliefs. Just as we support Christians in practising their religion, so we defend the Muslim community in the same way and fight against any discrimination or racist attacks.



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