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General gaming discussion

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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    ...

    Post edited by PixelPlayer on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Tbh



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    ...

    Post edited by PixelPlayer on


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    It should definitely be okay for such a female character to be the lead protagonist in a game. As others have said, Stellar Blade is a perfect example. Where it starts to become an issue is when female characters aren't so voluptuously beautiful. We've already seen where they've tried to "correct" what female characters such as Aloy from Horizon should look like by adding makeup (in a post-apocalyptic world) and removing the only-noticeable-if-you-zoom-in-really-close-in-certain-light peach fuzz on her face that all women have, or complaining that the female fighters in Mortal Kombat aren't as scantily-clad as previous games. It extends past games too, such as when images were going around of guys "correcting" the poster of the Fallout TV show by giving the actress wider hips and tighter trousers.

    That's why it's not always wrong to presume these dingbats are sex-craved 13 year olds. It's like they've never met an actual woman and they've gone through so much porn that they need their games to emulate it too.

    I mean Christ.... "This game has gone woke because the woman who brutally slices her opponent in half and gets drenched in their blood isn't showing enough cleavage."



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Then they'll find a company that isn't as badly mismanaged as the current one. Labour is the commodity not the company. Same way if you are being denied a position you are qualified for and you think you deserve, go somewhere else. It's not 'wokes' fault. That's just plain bad management.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    No it's 100% getting on the woke train. They want to be able to say they are a diverse company and have pictures on the company website with young, Asian, black females and no white men. Except for the board of course, but they don't show their picture.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    You're allowed to complain, it's just not an especially credible opinion that "racism against whites" is a thing. It isn't.

    This isn't the thread to get into the detail of what you're bringing up, but maybe consider the fact that what you presume will be an under qualified candidate is as likely to be someone who'll work twice as hard to climb the ladder.

    I've worked with raw graduates who work like demons, and senior developers who barely lift a finger; in fact I'd rather someone with something to prove on my team than someone presuming entitlement.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    You're right it's not the thread for this discussion. There is a connection in that my point is it is systemic in society and movies and video games are reflective of that.

    This is rampant in the US where the majority of the outrage comes from. They are living this in their daily lives. Having to do a 5 min initial screening interview so they can see your age, race and gender. Losing out on university places to people who got worse results than you.

    You shouldn't be too quick to belittle their argument as nothing more than internet basement trolling.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I belittle it because it's wildly exaggerated paranoia, when the reality is that smokescreens like DEI (which many black public figures routinely criticise as empty gestures) have shown no radical change in the make up of American industries. And seemingly only served to make white (Americans) think they're some kind of victimised minority.

    It's patent nonsense, and a little corporate diversity training exists for no other reason than to shield the company from lawsuits, that's it. They're not parachuting in incompetent black people - and yeah that kind of logic doesn't endear folk either TBH.

    Just taking my own, the tech / IT industry, the vast majority remain white men. I imagine the same approximate statistics would be seen in the games industry.

    We are not an endangered race, a little equality and balancing of the scales is not oppression. You are however middle aged so you're probably more likely feeling the sting of potentially being pushed out for being old and expensive. Which, yeah, welcome to the clan; that has happened since Year 0.

    7.9% of the total US labor force works in tech as of 2021

    26.7% of tech jobs are held by women, and men hold 73.3% of tech jobs

    In the US tech sector, 62% of jobs are held by white Americans. Black Americans hold 7% of jobs, Latinx Americans hold 8% of jobs, and Asian Americans hold 20% of jobs

    In the United States, 83.3% of tech executives are white



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    If anyone's coming for our jobs, it ain't underqualified PoC Gen Zs eating avocado toast .. it'll be an AI bot doing your job for zero dollars; at best you might be kept on to be the AI Whisperer.

    And you can bet your bottom dollar the gaming industry is looking at any and all ways to shutter art, coding and QA departments so they can be replaced with AI. Marketing and executives will be fine of course.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    I don't feel under threat, I just feel it is complete and utter madness that I must exclude a specific race, age and gender in my hiring process.

    Bringing it back on topic and related to my gripe with Disney. What is the purpose of having a black samauri other than jumping on the Disney diversity wagon and appeasing what is actually a left leaning political agenda?

    There should be no politics. There should be no shame in having a game with an ethnically Japanese samauri.

    Yes I know there is was a black samauri. Of course there was, why wouldn't there be?

    It's not something I am personally offended by or have any strong feelings against it. But I can 100% understand why there is outrage and I do find it a bit offensive to see those who do being belittled and accused of being racist by other people who are just as equally exagerattijg their outrage and virtue signalling to make themselves look like better people, or more accurately trying to make their online persona come across as more virtuous and more important than those they are putting down.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Yasuke is a historical black samurai and pretty well known when it comes to Japanese history.

    I mean it's Ubisoft and all but as a character it makes a lot of sense. Fish out of water protagonist and they aren't just aping tsushime. They only people that have gripes are racist bigots. The Japanese are looking forward to a yasuke game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,969 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Race usually has little to do with the main character, as long as they're well written and suitable it doesn't matter, ie: Bayak, Kratos, Franklin, CJ, etc. Its nearly impossible to have a create a character and have decent dialogue, which is why I much prefer playing as someone. Tell me a story. I'm not even a fan of game that have multiple main protagonists, but some manage it (GTA).

    Playing as Yasuke in AC doesn't really bother me, but of all the historical characters from Japanese history, they go with someone whose of African descent and only in Japan for 15 months. Granted, that may suit the overall AC story somehow, but it was a missed opportunity. Playing as someone like Masamune, Hideyoshi, Sakamuto Ryoma, etc. I'm still gonna get it and play it, but I can understand some of the backlash for it. We waited long enough to play a Japanese samurai in AC, and we got Yasuke the retainer. The actual historical accounts of Yasuke in Japan are quite racist tbh, people killing each other to get a look at "the black man", and that being more or less the sole reason Nobunaga wanted to see him and made him continously wash himself to prove it was real. Strange choice imo, considering who else it could have been.

    But I'll reserve final judgement until I've played it.

    Edit: guess I'm a racist bigot... but the Japanese reaction, from what results Google is giving me, is split.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Still get to play most of AC Shadows as Naoe if you want, who is Japanese.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,969 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    True, but she's the stealthy one and thanks to the rpg ACs I prefer the full on combat. And she a ninja, not a samurai. :P



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    No I think I'm the racist bigot.

    But for the record I couldn't give 2 shytes what race the samauri is and i will play it especially because of the background of the character.

    My point is those who do have a problem are entitled to speak out without being accused of being racist bigots. There is far more depth to the argument than simply being racist whether you like it or not. There can never be debate when one side is automatically put down and accused of being a racist bigot. It's censorship and it's gone so far that we're in the position now where it is not just socially acceptable to exclude races, genders and age groups from art, film, games and in real world roles but it is also considered racism and bigotry not to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,969 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I agree. Race never mattered to me, but story and gameplay does so I may end up liking it, we'll find out in a few months. But it's crazy that one can't speak out without being labelled, regardless of the argument against.

    Anyway, if i have an issue with anything, it's all the redheads being blackcast, but no one cares about us. Plus I'm old enough now to laugh it off. (This is tongue in cheek, in case anyone needs notifying).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    To be honest, there's discussing it and then there's being a racist asshole and feigning indignity when called out on it. Probably because I'm terminally online but you see it all the time from the right wing, saying something completely racist or just plain false and then screaming about censorship. "I can't discuss anything without being called a fascist or a right winger" is pretty much the new "I'm not racist but...".

    This isn't aimed at you but at the online discourse about it, the extremes of it. There is too much leeway letting people spout the extremes of these opinions under the guise of listening to both sides. Their arguments are all in bad faith and any argument in bad faith can and should be completely dismissed. It's an oxymoron but to be tolerant you have to be intolerant to intolerance. If not you end up platforming people like Trump and Nigel Farage.

    Anyway I'll take my socialism hat off and cover up the che Guevara t-shirt. You'll find that all the backlash against diversity in games is just people trying to start up gamergate 2. It's kind of failing spectacularly since their main target is a faceless entity and they don't have any females to focus on and harass which seemed to have been the main goal of the first gamergate.

    Anyway on a personal anecdote, I never understood how much diversity meant and how much I was pandered to until I saw how excited a female co-worker from Venezuela was when she watched cobra kai on my recommendation and she found out one of the lead characters was Hispanic. Also heard a lot of the **** she had to deal with as a South American woman in the states when it came to getting a job or finding university places or funding. And she was a well off and frankly brilliant PhD chemist with some great postdoctoral work as well.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    There should be no politics. There should be no shame in having a game with an ethnically Japanese samauri.

    "Shame"? Who said there's shame? You're putting words in the mouths of Ubisoft and pretty combative ones for no good reason. The entire discussion has been based off of the ludicrously histrionic reaction from the usual types, including noted racists like Elon Musk. If there's nuance I'm not seeing it and only the usual "grrr woke" nonsense.

    Ubisoft's choice to make Yatsuke the lead character is their own; the only reason I even knew this poxy series has a black lead was because of the aforementioned outrage and it's not like Samurais are some kind of underrepresented concept in media. It's one game, it's barely worth the bytes spent screaming about it. Yeah it's an odd image but my ability to process isn't immediately detailed by a different ethnicity.

    As to the "no politics" stance, good luck with that. Even apolitical stances are political ones and reaching for it is akin to the whole "reviews should be objective" fallacy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Its a videogame series with a bunch of assassin's battling against gods, a boss fight against medusa and George washington, meeting Leonardo DaVinci and using his flying machine.

    But heaven forbid they have a black samurai based on an actual legit historical black samurai.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,347 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I guarantee half the noisiest, most agitated screaming Woke and DEI never even played the AC series.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,584 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    This thread makes me so happy I'm not on twitter and don't post much heed to the outrage of the week and the counter outrage backlash and gobshites screaming at each other.

    In actual gaming discussion, I recently got a vr for my PS4. Any suggestions for what to get to impress the wife and trick her into thinking it wasn't a massive waste of money? 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    I'd also add that maybe the reason Ubisoft are telling a story about this particular Samurai is precisely because he has such an interesting backstory and dynamic; that he's someone who faces prejudices and extra challenges because of it and has to go further to prove himself. It's a very common storytelling framework.

    But of course, the vast, vast majority of people complaining about the historical accuracy of it and who are suddenly experts in Japanese history had no idea he even existed a few weeks ago.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The only reason I'd want to own a PS VR is astrobot which my all accounts is a Nintendo level platformer.

    Blood and truth is stupid fun.

    The Until Dawn game isn't bad.

    Project Aces gives a great impression of flying a jet and plays just like ace combat.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    The expert in japanese history complaining about assassin's creed:



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,610 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Well I'm no expe..…

    I mean.... that's not me.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭jj880


    Astrobot Rescue Mission x 1,000,000. I am envious of anyone playing it for the first time. Its a masterpiece built from the ground up for PSVR and never equalled in VR. Hopefully some day we see another on PSVR2. Its 13.50 euro on Cex including delivery. 10 euro if you collect.

    My wife loves beat saber on Meta Quest. Probably need the move controllers on PSVR though.

    Edit: get all these first. Loads of demos and good stuff to try out including Astrobot. IIRC they were all free when I got them:

    Post edited by jj880 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,969 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Beat Saber. Problem with that is you may not get a go as its an easy to play VR game that nearly everyone who tries it loves it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,291 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Was so excited to see Denpa Men was coming back at the Nintendo direct. And then it's a smelly f2p game...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    ...

    Post edited by PixelPlayer on


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