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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    No point in me doing the maths for you as you will again just refuse to accept them, but do your own on Eirgrid`s predictions of our 2050 requirements with this 2050 wind/hydrogen, and let me know what the gap in supply will.be in 2050 that we will be paying carbon emission charges for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    The future is now, there is a matter of materials stress, making turbines too big as Siemens and others have discovered equals higher failure rates, leading to downtime and warranty costs as Siemens accountants discovered, that led to failure and German taxpayer funded bailout.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    What age were you in 2008 ? If you were under 16 then go and talk to people who were old enough to remember the damage that banking crises did to peoples lives.

    We didn`t all go crazy flipping property due to the ECB flooding the market with cheap money, but we all ended up footing the bill.

    There was no "us" as far as the E.U was concerned we were the sacrificial lambs where according to Eurostat (although you probably will not believe them either) we ended up shouldering 42% of Europes`s banking crises at a cost close to €9,000 for every man, woman and child in the country



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That's a bit like saying the Titanic showed the end of large ocean liner development. Lessons will be learned and it will be made bigger and better.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    They forced us to borrow 'cheap' money did they the bastrds? The banks and many went crazy borrowing. Of course it's not our fault at all we just can't control ourselves. In reality they helped us recover even if it was at a high cost to us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    You don’t see the problem with us borrowing hundreds of billions for offshore wind and storage of said power and interconnections?

    And if it’s not us borrowing it will have to be private companies who will of course the want to make profit for this from the Irish population



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Borrowing for an infrastructure project which can give us energy independence is a far different proposal to building big houses and estates where people didn't want to live. Companies will of course need to make profits. Helped subsidies/grants. Staying on fossil fuels will cost everybody more in the long run.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    You do realise that this project is subsidised at guaranteed price of 120e MWh which is higher than even the most expensive nuclear project which is HinkleyC?


    meanwhile the new plant on Finland not to far from there resulted in wholesale prices of 27 to 70 MWh in Finland

    https://catalyst.independent.org/2023/07/12/finland-reactor-lowering-electricity-prices/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    It’s not the state that’s borrowing it tho, but companies that get guaranteed profits extracted from the population who already have the highest electricity prices in world and if these companies go bankrupt are left with the sea that’s scattered with broken turbines who only have a lifetime of 20 years


    which makes your analogy with houses that last a lot more than 20 years (and of which we need more!) extra funny 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    If a company goes bankrupt their assets will be sold on. Unlikely with supports and backing. Wind turbines stay where they are and electricity keeps on flowing perhaps the Government will purchase them at a cut price like the houses?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Record wind generation in April 2024!

    https://www.renewableinstitute.org/ireland-reports-successful-month-for-wind-power-generation/

    Eamon Ryan should be proud!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    no they don’t, especially not in salty and rough Atlantic



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    why electricity prices remain high then and likes of Amazon threatening leave country as they can’t connect datacenters to this green bonanza?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    If they were working the day before they will still be working the next day. Most oceans are salty comes with the territory.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    literally the most corrosive environment for tech

    You brought up houses, houses last a lot longer than 20 years, nuclear plants run for 60 years or more



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Built to withstand typhoons. Power generation on acid me thinks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There you go with the Nuclear option again! Whatever about wind generation its a non starter here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Probably the start of even bigger!



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Somewhat crass is it not seeing as over 1,500 people lost their lives with the sinking of the Titanic, but then the analogy with the Irish Green Party is quite apt. In both case the higher your socioeconomic status the better you fared.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Oh come on..it's over a hundred years ago! Besides the analogy is spot on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,064 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Whatever you think yourself, but The Holocaust was 80 years ago and I wouldn`t make flippant comparisons in relation too it, but maybe that`s just me.

    Still, at least we agree that the analogy of the higher your socioecomic status the better you fared with both the Titanic and the Irish Green Party js spot on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Pman


    Of course we were going to take the free money when offered. Money is the lifeblood of western civilisation, we need it more than anything else , it provides food heat shelter and the odd holiday in isle of dodge. The big Bank knew and knows that we're all money addicts and they gave their addicts all the money drug they wnated and even more most of the time. I knew a fella in mortgages in a bank and he was on commission to see if he could get 3 million a week out the door on to the shoulders of couples in 2006. He used to laugh that they used to try and refuse to take the mortgages they were offered. Last i heard , he's working in a meat factory and making good money there aswell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    There is 70 years of nuclear tech, there are next to none floating offshore turbines (200MW in whole world)

    Which is why you are having such hard time finding figures for 2/3rds of this 37GW being floaty kind



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,206 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Now that the Greens are going the way of the polar bear and the kiwi bird, maybe now we can start discussing actual crises like immigration, housing, diabolical road infrastructure, the mass exodus of those we paid a pretty penny to educate and last but not least the Great Pension Pyramid Scheme Implosion of 2029.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,044 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Talking about energy independence creating wind farms clearly show how much you know about the subject.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭Consonata


    Exorbitantly expensive as compared to what exactly.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Oil, coal & gas. Wind has capacity factor of ~30% (depending on site can range from 20% to 40%), solar in Ireland is 10%, this means they spend a lot of time NOT working. Wind energy Ireland is fond of quoting nameplate capacity an issuing press releases when the wind blows. We have gotten used to being able to walk into a dark room and the light works when we turn it on, the electrical grid is designed and managed in a way to ensure the power is available on demand.

    Reliability engineering means you have to design a grid to maintain 50Hz and be able to recover from failure. All plant has a duty cycle and most maintenance on plants is done abound now to be ready for peak winter demand. Also need redundancy because generation plants can trip out (e.g. lightning strike) all of this is run in tight tolerances by the grid managers. Eirgrid have had to loosen tolerance specifications and the ESB is installing a synchronous condenser to accommodate non-synchronous generation sources (wind & solar)

    There is the matter of baseload power, curtailment and standby generation costs, frequency stabilization services, reactive power, battery to manage sudden generation drops and allow time for reliable generation to come online, managing the grid becomes more complex and expensive. The Public Service Obligation (PSO) levy set by the CRU keeps keeps going up with the renewables. Wind energy Ireland likes to tell us they are cheap by quoting levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) metrics, that is not how electricity prices are set and it is not reflected in our electricity bills.

    Wind and solar means the grid needs sources of reliable generation, in Ireland that is gas turbine combined cycle power generation that can be rapidly bought online. Remember solar generation goes to 0 every day and effectively disappears off the grid from November to March and wind generation does drop to insignificant levels (even become a draw on the power grid), both do this when power is most needed. This means the electrical grid must have full redundancy to accommodate weather and seasonal dependent generation, that means capital investment and fuel & maintenance costs, even it is standing idle.

    Wind and solar are unreliable and require a massive support infrastructure, this is not cheap. What happens in Germany, the reliable generators can see the weather forecast for the day ahead and don't bid or they are price takers, they also see when there is no wind and set the price accordingly. In fact there have been occasions when the grid operators have had to get on their knees and beg the reliable generators to provide power, because the price is not sufficient. To try and offset that Germany & Britain have built inter-connectors to its neighbours, that is driving up prices for domestic customers in those countries, the Swedish government rejected the latest interconnector bid to Germany.

    In a significant move, the Swedish government has rejected the proposed 700 MW Hansa PowerBridge subsea power connection between Sweden and Germany. Energy Minister Ebba Busch cited inefficiencies in the German electricity market as the primary reason for the decision, emphasizing that connecting southern Sweden—already facing an electricity production deficit—with Germany could lead to higher prices and increased market instability.

    The Hansa PowerBridge project, a collaboration between grid operators Svenska Kraftnät and Germany’s 50Hertz, aimed to facilitate the transfer of renewable energy from the Nordics to Germany. However, the Swedish government raised concerns about the current state of the German power grid. Unlike Sweden, which is divided into four power price zones to manage grid bottlenecks, Germany operates as a single power market zone. This structure has led to significant congestion, particularly in moving power from the wind-rich north to the energy-consuming south, prompting calls for a market split—a move Germany resists due to potential price hikes and industrial impact in its southern regions. source


    There is no such thing as a free lunch, inter-connectors are driving up prices for French, Norwegian and Swedish domestic customers. When the wind is blowing in Ireland, it is also blowing in the UK, which means wind turbine generation cannot set the price, this Saudia Arabia of wind nonsense, means even if the turbines and sufficient inter-connectors are built that we will be giving away power for free, obviously the wind turbine operators want to make profits and the inter-connector has maintenance and capital costs - who pays for that?

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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