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Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭whitelaurel




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    The line above is factually wrong. They were all square at this point.

    No they weren't. He's talking about the 16th (70th green). Which was 2'6", 30 inches and the real killer. His head was gone after that. The putt on 18 was actually a foot longer, but he doesn't miss that one had he not missed the one on 16.



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    Oh yeah. My bad. Took 70th for 72nd. Thanks for the correction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    No bother

    Look, choke is not nice word, I get it. But whatever way you wanna call it the pressure got to him.

    And we're not talking about Sunday league for 12 year olds where it's all about everyone 'competes' and being supportive to the kids. It's the highest level. It's tough there and your performance is going to be judged mercilessly. Which I didnt think this article was. Just calling a spade a spade.

    And to be honest we all know Rory's mental game is his weak side. He's the best golfer there is, but he's always been prone to shakes under pressure.

    Post edited by CalamariFritti on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    He didn't "completely" choke.

    He had a 2 shot lead with 5 to play. He played those 5 holes in +3.

    Its one of the biggest chokes I've seen in golf.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    He didn't "completely" choke.

    for it to be considered not completely choking…. I would say that you give up your lead… but not all of it and you just about hold on to get over the line or maybe playoff



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Article is grand except for usage of the words "choking" and "meltdown". If he choked, he choked. Not sure why anyone should expect Rory to admit it in front of the world. If it's what happened, as long as he's honest about it with himself, the rest of us don't matter unless the journo thinks that he should hold himself up to ridicule by sharing it with the rest of the world many of whom revel in the deficiencies of people who have achieved far more than they ever will from behind the cloak of anonymity that is the internet.

    The use of the word "meltdown" is dangerous hyperbole in my view. He didn't have a meltdown - he missed two shortish putts in a major championship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Once he went two shots clear:

    • On 14, missed the fairway. A fan stopped it from rolling further and likely into a worse spot. Missed the green.
    • On 15, wrong club, goes long and in a nightmare spot. Makes bogey
    • On 16, plays it well but misses the very short putt for par
    • On 17, misses the green and lands it in the bunker
    • On 18, misses the fairway and misses the short putt for par

    From the moment he got the lead, he mad a mistake on every hole from there. That's a meltdown.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,640 ✭✭✭TheCitizen


    I hope and am sure that Rory McIlroy won’t be in denial, will recognise that he bottled it and will use his years of experience and knowledge and reserves to face up to what happened and be honest with himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    No question about it being a choke - I meant that he didn't "completely" fall apart. There were a few shots in there where he held his nerve well.

    Anyway, well done to Bryson - the 2 of them made it special.

    Let's see if McIlroy can throw off the shackles at Troon. That would be one hell of a way to re-write the narrative around him. He'll have the crowd with him all the way Ryder Cup style.

    He'd surely then kick on to win a few more. Who wouldn't want to see him surpass Faldo's major haul (except for Faldo)?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    No question about it being a choke - I meant that he didn't "completely" fall apart. 

    He made a mistake on every hole once he got the lead. That's as close to completely falling apart as you're going to get.



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    Bryson made a mistake on nearly every hole of the 18 so that logic doesn't hold up at all.

    And did Aberg also completely choke?

    At least McIlroy finished ahead of Cantlay. Silver lining.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    "Meltdown" is a word I don't like because there are some connotations around it that I don't think are appropriate for sport. The pressure got to him, no question. Why anyone has to use hyperbolic terms to describe it, I don't know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,281 ✭✭✭big_drive


    I don't get the whole choker label in golf really. If someone is a choker then surely they're never getting into a position to win in the first place. A choker to me might be more appropriate when speaking about someone who can't make a cut.

    Rory has 40 professional wins including 4 majors, hardly the CV of a "choker"



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    Deadly off the tee, iffy at putting - "choker".

    Iffy off the tee, deadly at putting - "balls of steel".

    Doesn't make sense really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭boardise


    But thinking again about this -what does that matter? As someone pointed out there's no protocol that requires anyone to stay for the presentation. Why should someone who has left an emotionally charged Major slip through his hands

    ( almost literally ! ) wait around to congratulate the guy who won it when he can do that any time.

    I was wrong to think it was 'bad form' because I foolishly thought there was some convention for a runner up to follow. Rory was in no fit state for any social contact at that time -he needed to be alone or with family to try to process and come to terms with what had transpired.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Aberg obviously choked.

    Bryson didn't make a mistake on every hole. If Bryson lost, people would have said he choked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    He missed a couple putts that happens time and time and time again in pro golf. Because it happened to be at a major nearing its end, the narrative that he choked is that much more appealing to pedal. Rory could have felt damn steely and confident putting those two missed putts, but that doesn't mean he sinks them. That's golf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    There's a difference between a word you don't like and one that's wrong.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think that is the point being made, Bryson didn’t have to play that well, and wasn’t when he was 2 behind with 5 holes to go. In fact, he played the last 4 holes +1, and held his nerve to capitalise on Mcilroys capitulation. When it came time to sink the winning putt, he was equal to the task, and went home with the trophy, that’s what counts.

    It isn’t a medical term, is used in every day life without a defined meaning, so I’m not sure what connotations concern you.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Not sure I said it was "wrong".

    Doesn't have to be a medical term. It's hyperbole and I think it's not really appropriate for the situation it's trying to describe. That type of phraseology just encourages extreme opinions IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    He didn't have a meltdown

    I'd consider that someone saying the word used is wrong. If you wanna argue semantics over the word "wrong", who cares?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin




  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭whitelaurel


    mad how he putt 496 out of 496 before that at that distance. But yeah I’m sure it wasn’t nerves that he missed his 497th. Weird that people care so much about choking and bottling, it happened to him, he will move on I’m sure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    Jaysis, fairly pathetic stuff. I never stated you used the word wrong if you wanna get into childish responses.



  • Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Quango Unchained


    That golf digest article is excellent.

    Then Rory exits, and he looks worse than before. He's wearing his failure to such an extent that I have to look away. Suddenly, he's being followed by a stream of people that includes the Netflix crew and the smiling face of Sergio Garcia

    Of all the ways Rory's being trying to prepare to win majors - forget it all and hang onto this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    He didn't putt 496 from 496 from that distance. It was within 3 foot - so that distance or shorter. Pressure got to him, no doubt. But stats like that, without context, are being used to maximise and exaggerate the scale of what happened.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Ye thats not what happened.

    If that was the case there would have been no reason to go all Mr. Thundercloud, storm out and withdraw from next week. Because it would have been 'ah sure bad luck what harm happens to everyone all the time'. It doesnt.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭whitelaurel


    yeah so distance wise that would have been his worst out of 497.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,729 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I couldn’t care less. But you seem a tad irritated when folks aren’t so ready to see it as “choking.”

    It’s hardly an exact science/definition anyway. It can always be open to interpretation. Personally I don’t see it as clear cut as some others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭whitelaurel


    ah right fair enough, I guess everyone has a bar for it. If this wasn’t then you must rarely see a sportsperson choke, fair enough



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Distance-wise, it was his worst out of however many putts he's hit in 2024 which is a lot more than 497. The point is, the stat being quoted widely at the moment is painting a picture that he holed 496 putts from that distance in 2024. He didn't. That impression is being given to maximise and exaggerate the scale of his failure to win. Much like some of the other hyperbolic language being used.

    FWIW, I thought the putt on 16 was much worse than the one on 18. The miss on 16 came from nowhere, it was relatively straight and he seemed to jerk it. The putt on 18 was a horrible putt. Wasn't a good effort by any means but it was a much tougher putt IMO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,521 ✭✭✭valoren


    McIlroy is 35. He has 4 majors. He knows what it requires. I remember Faldo, then 35 as well, in 1992 at Muirfield. He went into it with a 4 shot lead but by the time he was standing on the 15th tee he was 2 behind John Cook. Faldo said he wasn’t choking but (like DeChambeau) he was making a mess of it all. Cook, now with the title in his grasp with a two shot lead, missed a 2 footer on the 17th for birdie and then bogeyed the 18th. He lost by a shot. Faldo having to hit, in his opinion, the shot of his life into the 18th to pip him. Did Cook choke? I reckon, like Rory, he did. Cook suddenly finding himself in the lead. A major on the line. Short miss and compounded by a bogey at the last. Rory missing shots, DeChambeau having to hit the shot of his life to pip Rory.

    Pressure can do that regardless if you’re a journeyman having the week of your life or a 4 time major winner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    That impression is being given to maximise and exaggerate the scale of his failure to win….Much like some of the other hyperbolic language being used.

    The stat is being used because its the most relevant stat available. Nobody has the stat on that exact distance and that stat would be meaningless. Inside 3ft is a putt PGA Tour Pros make 96% of the time on average. The putt on 16 he missed was a gimme.

    The stats drop off very quickly after 3 ft.

    There's no exaggeration, it was a choke.



  • Registered Users Posts: 177 ✭✭whitelaurel


    yeah that’s fair enough but let’s face it that’s the media for you. I just don’t feel sorry for sport stars when they screw up and still earn a few million. Yeah 18 was a lot tougher , I expected that to be a 50/50 given the pressure.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    But the stat is misleading. I'm not disputing that the pressure got to Rory, it's close to impossible to make a credible argument that it didn't, but the stat without context is meaningless.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,600 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Both of those are very apt for how Rory and Bryson actually played the final round. I wouldn't call either a choker as I don't like the term though. I have to say that it was a very interesting final round played on a very tight and difficult course. Really enjoyable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    the stat isnt misleading at all. He made 496 of the previous putts ranging from 0-3ft. All relevant information is given.

    That putt was a gimme.

    He should make that putt 96% of the time (and i suspect his actual stats are higher)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    have to laugh at people who don’t think terms or words should be used because they openly admit they don’t like said words or phrases ! 🤣


    they probably don’t like terms such as millennials or softies either 🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭boardise


    He must be close. Those who say he'can't compete or win at the highest level are ignoring the fact that he's regularly competing in Majors and competed brilliantly in the US Open where he beat everyone except himself.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    Have no opinion on either word. My point on the word “meltdown” is that I don’t like it but that’s not why I think it shouldn’t be used in this context. There are certain connotations that come with the word, it’s emotive, it’s hyperbolic and I don’t think it’s appropriate for sport.


    But yeah, reduce it to I don’t think it should be used “because I don’t like it.” Jesus wept.


    McIlroy let the pressure get to him, no doubt. But why people have to resort to pretty extreme words to describe it escapes me. Maybe it makes them feel better about themselves.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,871 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    It’s being understood that he made 496 putts of 3 feet by some people. In fact, the post I originally quoted said just that. Fact is, within that 496 will be a lot of much shorter putts, relatively speaking, than the ones he missed on Sunday. The stat is not really relevant.


    Fact is, Rory missed two putts he’d have expected to make and did it when the pressure was on. That tells a story. It doesn’t need stats to be quoted, out of context, to illustrate what happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭boardise


    As Oscar Wilde might say 'To miss one short putt is unfortunate; to miss two looks like carelessness'



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think you are getting caught up in semantics.

    A “meltdown” is commonly used in sporting parlance to indicate the person/team’s performance imploded due to pressure or emotion. There really is no other connotation inferred.

    In relation to the putt statistic, I don’t think anyone thinks he succeeded in holing the precise same putt 496 times, I suspect everyone else took it =< 3 feet. And to be fair, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn’t expect an elite golfer to hole those every time, that is the context to the stat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,064 ✭✭✭bren2001


    It’s being understood that he made 496 putts of 3 feet by some people.

    People are not understanding it like that. It is not being presented that way.

    The stat from Justin Ray:

    Rory McIlroy was 496-for-496 putting inside 3 feet this season before that miss.

    There’s nothing misleading about that. If people don’t understand what “inside 3 feet” means, that’s not on the journalist. It’s not being used to exagerate anything nor is it misleading as you claim. It’s given in its context.

    Youve an odd and weird issue with the English language and how people use it.

    How is a meltdown emotive? It’s a word often used in sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,084 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    I seem to recall someone having a bit of a meltdown on the back 9 in Augusta about 13 years ago.

    I personally wouldn’t call missing 2 putts a meltdown


    he could have missed them on Thursday and it wouldn’t be getting this much attention



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭Ted222


    10 years of learnings? People have become surgeons with a shorter period of learnings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭Ted222


    100% agree with this.

    He wasn’t in the same pairing so he had some excuse but storming off the way he did looks poor. Ultimately though, it affects him most. It points perhaps to a weakness of character that is may be why he hasn’t won a major in 10 years.

    He’s just too emotional and lacks resilience when faced with adversity. Same with his stance on LIV. He got embroiled in the whole controversy, becoming the de facto voice of the PGA when the smart move would have been to say nothing.

    Great golfer but he doesn’t seem to have the ability to cope in situations of adversity or high pressure. I wish him well but he’s a bit of a worry.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,175 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    In fairness since I wrote that he has come out the following day praising the winner - look the vast majority of us don’t know what goes on at that level - I posted that comment more out of concern for Rory’s recovery from that experience rather than any criticism per se- but it’s probably worth him exploring that over the coming months- the game of golf at that level is all in the mind so you need to get your mind straight - hopefully whatever about the golf lessons he’ll reflect on from a technique perspective, he’ll also learn something about defeat or indeed handling the pressure throughout a potential win - mind games can be desperate in sport



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 440 ✭✭Ted222


    His congratulatory message was nice alright but his inability to cope in the moment points to a lack of mental resilience when the chips are down.

    It would have been better for his own state of mind if he could somehow have found the strength to front up. Doing it the next day is better than not doing it at all but I think his weakness is still revealed.



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