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Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

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    #212
    rizzla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,936 ✭✭✭rizzla


    Sorry for off topic but any recommendations for travel insurers that cover full cost of holiday in case of cancellations?

    Even though I am potentially affected hope the pilots get what they want.



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    #213
    Trampas
    Registered Users Posts: 7,614 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I guess most of us will have to see what next week shows on what’s flying or not. Last year I was flying to Lanzarote and cork went tech the day before and they put a 330 on to fly everyone over. I wonder will they try something like that to reduce the impact. It’s all a guessing game really



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    #214
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,482 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275906#Comment_122275906

    No point, they don't cover strikes etc if you purchase whilst there's industrial unrest ongoing.



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    #215
    Astral Nav
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭Astral Nav


    I'm reliably informed that the amount of ACMI aircraft available (hire in airlines with crewed aircraft) is minimal to zero.

    AL aircraft are already some of the most heavily tasked in the industry during Summer, some flying around 16 hours a day.

    Not easy to replace.



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    #216
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    I need to book a short trip in early August on a route flown by EI & FR. fares are comparable but I’ll book Ryanair now due to the uncertainty.

    Only one persons booking but shows that work to rule is a smart way of playing this. As the cancellations start and backlogs build, bookings will plummet. Not great for the airlines profitability though.



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    #217
    davebuck
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭davebuck


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276081#Comment_122276081

    You won't be alone I'm in the same situation as yourself, 6 flghts with EI this year but has swopped to FR now can't afford the risk of cancellation or long delays.Probably the best move by the union on damage to themselves to start with!



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    #218
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 38,257 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    I'm assuming Ryanair pilots are a separate group with there flights not been affected ?



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    #219
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122276259#Comment_122276259

    RPG no less(Forsa)

    AL is IALPA



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    #220
    jellies
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭jellies


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275786#Comment_122275786

    You would be amazed at how little pilots are paid to work outside conditions. It nets out at about 300 quid after tax. And that could make the difference between cancelling a transatlantic flight and putting people up in hotels or not. Given AL has a shortage of pilots it would be in their own interest to pay more so that pilots are willing to work on days off etc. As it is it is not worth their while and given the poor relations with the company they are not doing this work any more and hence the recent cancellations. This is separate to the work to rule which will make matters worse.



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    #221
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275582#Comment_122275582

    Min 9 days, Max 5 weeks in advance.

    It's a 28 day roster.

    Usually published at the end of the 3rd week of the 28 days.



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    #222
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,209 ✭✭✭plodder


    My thoughts. I had no idea pilots were paid so much and a 24% pay claim is taking the piss.

    Easy for me to say, but it was interesting to hear people on a radio vox pop saying they are at risk with their own holidays, but not agreeing with the claim anyway.



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    #223
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 13,046 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    I had a quick look through the thread and I didn't see this answered, so if it is I apologise, but are Emerald Air staff involved with this action as well or are all Aer Lingus Regional flights expected to run as normal?



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    #224
    wiresandmore
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭wiresandmore


    Recent family experience on two Aer Lingus flights which were cancelled was that the alternatives offered were up to 2 days later… is this what we should expect from next week? Many of their destinations in France have one flight a day so I can see major impacts there. Will play havoc with holidays if this is the case!



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    #225
    kub
    Registered Users Posts: 6,542 ✭✭✭kub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277146#Comment_122277146

    Aer Lingus Regional are a different company, they are not affected by this.



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    #226
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277165#Comment_122277165

    Unless it’s resolved in the next week, no doubt there will be some disruption but not even EI themselves know what that will look like yet.

    I posted what appears to be a similar action by BA pilots some years back that was resolved in a timely manner, which would leave some hope for minimal disruption with a bit of luck



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    #227
    eeepaulo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭eeepaulo


    Is it definite that regional flights are ok? Could they take some of the planes/pilots to cover the affected routes?

    I havent heard anyone on rte say regional flights shouldnt be affected.



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    #228
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277234#Comment_122277234

    the regional flights aren’t effected but those routes will be full anyway, cancelling them to cover other routes just shifts the problem. The regional pilots wouldn’t be trained to fly mainline aircraft either and would be unlikely to operate anyway due to support for the pilots.



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    #229
    moonshy2022
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭moonshy2022


    Plodder it doesn’t really matter what you think about their pay. They are massively underpaid compared to colleagues elsewhere in EasyJet, Virgin, BA and across the US that are getting minimum 25% plus pay rises.

    What matters here is that these pilots can leave EI easily, very easily, and go to other airlines and increase their pay. EI then will have a pilot shortage and find it extremely difficult to get new pilots in quickly to replace them and provide the same service. In fact EI already are struggling hence the hire ins.

    MOD EDIT TO REMOVE IRRELEVANT CONTENT

    Post edited by Tenger on


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    #230
    moonshy2022
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭moonshy2022


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277338#Comment_122277338

    They lose dozens each year to other airlines. They lost 20 captains over the winter to other airlines. But please tell me more.



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    #231
    moonshy2022
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭moonshy2022


    Plodder I never said that, and that most certainly wasn’t my point. I see you are up to your old games of making stuff up again. Nothing changes does it.

    The pilots are trying to improve their pay and terms and conditions and recover what they lost during Covid. All the while EI are a profitable airline and can afford it. I merely stated that EI will find it hard to attract pilots in a market where they offer the lowest pay and terms and conditions.



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    #232
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277427#Comment_122277427

    @moonshy2022 Do you know comparably the benefits EI pilots get, let's say with BA?

    My knowledge, is their benefits compared to lets say FR pilots are night and day.

    Wondering if all IAG pilots benefits are across the board.

    EI pilots would never leave to another airline for more money(or extremely rare) (I've never heard of it) (My uncle is an ex Captain).



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    #233
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,209 ✭✭✭plodder


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277427#Comment_122277427

    What are you on about? Who are you even?

    This is what you said

    What matters here is that these pilots can leave EI easily, very easily, and go to other airlines and increase their pay. EI then will have a pilot shortage and find it extremely difficult to get new pilots in quickly to replace them and provide the same service. In fact EI already are struggling hence the hire ins.

    So, this industrial action is designed to help EI stop their pilots leaving for better conditions elsewhere. But that is what happens everywhere in the private sector. You think EI management don't know there is a market for pilots? LOL

    They are doing this for themselves and because they can. Simple as.



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    #234
    CoisFharraige
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭CoisFharraige


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277452#Comment_122277452

    You're right in that it was extremely rare, but over the last few years it's come up more and more. A quick linkedin search throws up a few people (CP/FO) who have left EI within the last few months to go to BA/VS/EK.



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    #235
    wazzzledazzle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭wazzzledazzle


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277464#Comment_122277464

    Thanks. I'd take your word over the other chap.



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    #236
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,204 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277427#Comment_122277427

    If profits nose dive next year will pilots willingly take a pay cut? Of course they won’t. It’s greed plain and simple, a 24% pay rise is a ridiculous demand. Why is this only a problem now? Covid ended a long time ago. Why didn’t they look for incremental increases or a more moderate increase a year or two ago?

    Im flying next Wednesday and booked Aer Lingus instead of Ryanair for the first time ever because the time suited me. I’ll never make that mistake again. Thankfully Ryanair also do that route so now I have a backup if Aer Lingus shaft me. Lesson learned though, stick with Ryanair in future.



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    #237
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277513#Comment_122277513

    they have been getting increments over the last few years, they don’t view them as pay rises though. Independent had an article that a FO who started in 2019 would have got a 52% pay lift since then.



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    #238
    Innisfallen
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Innisfallen


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277513#Comment_122277513

    Everyone in EI took a pay cut during Covid.

    And these discussions have been going on since 2019, before Covid. EI has dragged their heals for years.



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    #239
    moonshy2022
    Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭moonshy2022


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122277513#Comment_122277513

    Greed

    Ridiculous

    I’m flying Ryanair


    Did I sum up your post accurately ?

    Do you honestly think that the pilots and their unions haven’t been trying to fix these issues for the last 3-4 years ?!



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    #240
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    The advantage with the timing is with the pilots, especially for the busy period we are coming into. While I sympatise with them wanting more, don't we all! It just sucks for people who booked with them, I've 6 flights booked with them over the next few months. In future I'll go with an alternative if possible, I'm sure others will too, this could backfire in the long run.



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    #241
    dash8q400
    Registered Users Posts: 22 ✭dash8q400


    I guess the fact that the pilots in AL aren't relying on public sympathy is a good thing because the level of begrudgery and outright jealousy from some posters is shocking. Most of you got 24% pay rises over the last 5 years according to CSO figures ( https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/economy/arid-41405378.html ).

    They did not so what makes you think they don't deserve it when the rest of you did? Just because their 24% is significantly larger than yours doesn't mean they shouldn't get it when everyone else does. Pure begrudgery plain and simple. I hope for one they get everything they're looking for.

    Boohoo if you lose a holiday because of it, you'll have plenty more and there's plenty of other airlines you can fly with out of Dublin if you don't want to fly with AL mine included.



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