Aer Lingus Flight Crew Industrial relations thread 2024

With a username like Dash 8 we definitly know what side you're on 😁

It seems amazing that the impartial professionals in both the Labour Court and the independent Pilot Pay Tribunal appear to have been completely unaware of how utterly appallingly these unfortunate, impoverished pilots have been treated by their employer over the past 5 years. We are truly fortunate to have the benefit of your well informed insights.

It was interesting to note the Labour Court's observation that there was "a lack of realism and commonsense shown by the pilot's representatives" during the negotiations. Is it possible that you were a member of that negotiation team?

How much of that 24% arose from simple market economics as opposed to holding a gun to the head of their employers? If there are labour shortages then demand for a particular skill increases and wages go up naturally, without any need to threaten industrial chaos. Wages can't just automatically follow inflation. If EI were losing pilots the way the other poster was suggesting, we'd be seeing it already in large scale schedule disruption. I don't see that happening. Sure, they are right to drive a hard bargain collectively. But, when it comes to strikes and working to rule, that's a dangerous game, with possible long term consequences.

You're saying AL pilots are not dependent on the public for their pay? Really?

Where do you thing their pay comes from?

You've also attributed to me a load of stuff I never said.

plodder do you need a hug, you seem like you do.

I’ve been through this with you over the years several times before. You are back making up stuff as usual.

For everyone else, I’m saying that if the pilots don’t get a decent raise then they will continue to leave and EI will struggle to replace them as they will be the poorer payer in the European industry. Why fly for EI when you can go elsewhere and earn 25% more at least.

As to who I am, that’s none of your business and you’ll never know either.

I have a few general observations upon reading this thread:

• "There is plenty of choice at Dublin Airport" is true only to a point. EI is the only carrier to operate non-stop services to quite a lot of places. For an upcoming trip my choice is to fly EI or to take a connecting service that will (at best) take four hours longer each way and cost more.
• I still don't subscribe to the view that if Easyjet/BA/etc get it then EI should too. Salaries are driven by local market conditions. If an employee chooses to relocate to a high-salary market, that's their prerogative. I'm not about to walk off my job because my peers in North America earn more than I do.
• I've never had a job where I got pay raises to match inflation. The numbers being thrown around make it very hard for the average Joe to support this action. Any sympathy that exists will evaporate very quickly when people's hard-earned holidays are impacted.

The next few weeks are going to be fun to watch.

What exactly am I making up, and what did I make up before? Over the years. Are you confusing me with someone else? I'm entitled to my point of view and if you can't be civil maybe you should go somewhere else and give yourself a hug.

You do realise that quoted CSO figure 24% does not equate to pay rises? The average rate is mainly driven by the ratio of low paid roles compared to higher paid roles overall in the state.

So for example, if there was a higher incidence of new IT and other higher paying roles than there was for lower paid jobs, then obviously the average rate will go up. It just means there are more better jobs than the previous period.

You can only compare like with like exactly to get a reflection of wage increases.

Another example. If Aerlingus changed the ratio of Captains to First Officers from say 50/50 to 55/45 then it's average pilot pay rate would rise. But it clearly is just a cost increase, not a real wage increase.

so why do these self-important glorified train drivers

🤣

Top notch banter

Plenty of people swore they'd never fly Ryanair again after their multiple bouts of Industrial action.

Everybody forgets about strikes when they find suitable fares and times.

It is a bit concerning to see so many people standing up for Management and wanting to quash workers rights with all this talk of Malta Certs. It's only though unions that the much mentioned "average family on their annual holiday" can afford to have time off and save money to get away...

Of course. The Labour Court isn't stupid enough to specifically criticise one side in any of its judgements, so it fudges a bit to provide a bit of cover. Although anyone with a degree of intelligence can read between the lines! But well done, I'm sure that IALPA is delighted with you for spinning that narrative.

As you also wrote, the Labour Court's recommendation was an interim one that offered the prospect of further pay increases following further negotiations. I struggle to understand why a bunch of intelligent workers wouldn't have accepted such an open ended solution! The answer, I believe, is that relations on both sides are so poor that - as sometimes happens in IR - IALPA really need to have a strike to enable their members let off steam.

That depends on which airline you're planning to book with.

Are the Manchester & Belfast based pilots IALPA members and therefore participating in the IR activity?

Flying to LHR next Tuesday and returning Thursday. What are the chances i'll know in advance if the return flight is delayed/cancelled?